Debate!

[shayuko.livejournal.com]

May Debate has now officially started ended!

The topic: Hagrid: A danger to the students or a loyal and trustworthy teacher?

The sides:
-Slytherin & Hufflepuff, 'danger to the students'
-Ravenclaw & Gryffindor, 'loyal and trustworthy teacher'

The points:
Your first qualifying comment earns you 10 points and 5 knuts, every qualifying comment after that will earn you 5 points and 2 knuts.

The rules: can be found here

If you have any questions or concerns, please leave a comment to yesterday's post (here). This post is for debating only.

Have fun!

-Marije

Comments

[timydamonkey.livejournal.com]

Hagrid made sure, when he was at school, that any creatures he had were not in a position to harm any students. Take Aragog, for instance - accused of hurting and killing humans, but never did so. Hagrid wouldn't have let them do that, and as the creatures both trusted and cherished Hagrid as their master, they wouldn't have gone against him.

Trying to hatch a dragon, while not the brightest of ideas, was something that Hagrid had always wanted to do. I'm fairly certain that several characters stated this. Have you ever had a feeling where you'd do anything to get to do a certain thing - a real ambition that you're willing to lose everything to do? This is such a thing for Hagrid. Let's face it, owning a dragon isn't going to become legal anytime soon. Hagrid doesn't always think about the effect of things he does have on other people, but he won't let them out of his sight to hurt anybody. Also, note the fact that Norbert stayed in Hagrid's hut. Who, other than Harry, Ron and Hermione, would visit Hagrid? Nobody. Also consider the fact that dragons are quite lethal - Hagrid has some sort of control, as, despite him having numerous pets dubbed 'dangerous', there've never been any lethalities. Even with things like Buckbeak and Malfoy - and let's not forget that that incident was Malfoy's fault for not listening to Hagrid who clearly explained not to insult him.

He is also NOT thoughtless. Let's not forget that Hagrid's also a half-giant - this is a perfectly reasonable explanation of why he sometimes finds creatures that are somewhat dangerous as harmless - they won't affect him. But, if Hagrid was thoughtless, Harry and Ron wouldn't have been able to get the Philosopher Stone, because he wouldn't have mentioned Aragog. He can sometimes not see thing as clearly as perhaps he should, but he's still not thoughtless.

Furthermore, Dumbledore is arguably one of the best wizards around. If he thought that Hagrid was a burden, he wouldn't have kept him around the students. He also saw that Hagrid wasn't to blame for setting Aragog on the students, which has to count for something. I don't believe that Dumbledore's trust in his groundskeeper/Care of Magical Creatures professor is misplaced.

-Chloe, Ravenclaw.

[pfc-rat.livejournal.com]

Loyal and Trustworthy Teacher:

The post of Care of Magical Creatures is a dangerous one at best. In PoA, we hear about Hagrid's predecessor retiring in order to "spend more time with his remaining limbs" which gives us all an idea that there is a great deal of danger involved in the subject material in general. So, while Hagrid has had some minor injuries in his classes, I would state that this type of thing is quite normal, and someone with far less expertise than he, and without his physical size and stamina would not be able to protect his students from the dangers they will be facing.

Let's be honest, there are some pretty dangerous creatures in the wizarding world, and if the students were only exposed to unicorns and flobberworms, they would be getting a second rate education. Hagrid exposes them to real life situations, while minimizing the danger better than most other teachers would be capable.

Melissa, Gryff

Hagrid a postive role model for Students

[puppetmaker40.livejournal.com]

From Puppermaker40 of Gryffindor

Hagrid is a very positive role model for the student which adds to his worth as a teacher. He has served the school before being appointed to the post he has now showing that upward mobility is possible no matter what your background. I think that is very important for students.

He is also one of those rare teachers that has a great passion for his subject and allows his students to know how much the subject and the chance to teach it means to him personally.

Re: Hagrid a postive role model for Students

[arienettelondon.livejournal.com]

I hardly think engaging in countless illegal activities is a good example for students. He has only remained at the school because of Dumbledore, and his 'upward mobility' is again, down to Dumbledore. He is not qualified for the job, or even indeed capable of teaching it without danger to the students. You make sweeping statements and yet fail to back them up, I'm interested in hearing your justification for these comments.
And to be frank, I'm sure it's dandy that he loves the subject and gee whizz it's just SWELL that he's allowed to teach it, but that does NOTHING for a students grade and education.

Pixie//Slytherin

[timydamonkey.livejournal.com]

Hagrid is one of the most loyal people that you'll find - his faith in Dumbledore never wavers, even when he's been in situations where it's looked hopeless. He's also very trustworthy - he's the last person who'd want to turn to the dark side, and not just because of Riddle's involvement in his being expelled.

His expulsion is a matter in itself, really. As a half-giant, Hagrid's a lot stronger that most people his age would be. I believe that Riddle was 17 when he got 13 year old Hagrid expelled, and while for most people it would be impossible, Hagrid would probably, as a 13 year old, been able to put a perfectly good fight against Riddle after he'd been expelled.

But he didn't. Aragog, the one who'd got him in trouble, remained a close friend of him, and he didn't set Aragog on Riddle, as he could have done very easily. This incident with Aragog is also important - it shows what Hagrid's like - even if someone's done something that degrades him, and they were originally friends, Hagrid will remain loyal with them. Mrs. Weasley was very fond of Harry but believed what was in the newspaper about him in 4th year. Hagrid, though equally fond of Harry, did not, because he knew him better than that.

Though I don't have the books for reference, Hagrid's being half-giant did deter him for a while, but he never lost faith in his friends, and his friends never lost faith in him. Hagrid his a person who, when he trusts someone, seems to be trusted just as equally. Harry rarely trusts someone on falsities, and the same with Dumbledore (there are perfectly good reasons with the DADA professors), and them both trusting him has got to mean something, right?

-Chloe, Ravenclaw.

[idleclockwork.livejournal.com]

While Hagrid may earn the trust of those around him, and rightfully so. He is very, very true and protective of those who he loves, and yes- those do include Dumbledore and Harry but they also unfortunately those do contain Aragog and other dangerous creatures who pose a threat to the students. Hagrid's impaired judgement and much-too rose coloured glasses give him a skewed view of the world and of people, he is much too trusting and while this doesn't deter him, and while he does not aquire as many injuries as he should because of his abnormally large size and strength, he doesn't seem to realise that the students that he is exposing to these dangerous creatures do not have the advantage of his size or strength, and so are more likely to be killed or obtain serious injuries.

Gwarp is trusting and loyal, but everyone recognises that Gwarp is also dangerous yet Hagrid is not able to keep himself from involving himself with Gwarp, and also goes so far as to introduce students to this highly dangerous individual. Gwarp doesn't know his own strength and neither does Hagrid, even though they are both trusting and loyal and lovable they are both still dangerous, through his interaction with the students and his introducing the students to dangerous animals Hagrid is very harmful to others.

Kim, Slytherin

A Danger

[hackergroupie.livejournal.com]

Hagrid has proved time and time again that his methods are insane, no not just insane - criminal.

Whether it is because of his HUGE size or a mental defect, Hagrid has not seemed to be able to detect danger when confronted with it. He is known to habitually bring home wild, horrific creatures and bring young children (Harry and others) into contact with them.

What sane person would create those skrewts? What sane person would ask a class full of children to care for them? Not only are the blast end skrewts created from dangerous creatures, but they were experimental and their abilities unknown even to their creator himself.

We've already seen Draco Malfoy get injured during one of Hagrid's classes. Will it take the loss of life before Hagrid realises that these are CHILDREN he's teaching. Children should not be put in such dangerous situations.

~Hacker Groupie/Slytherin Prima Donna

Re: A Danger

[puppetmaker40.livejournal.com]

He may be a bit naive as to what children can take care of but he never does anything maliciously. Now Draco's injury was of his OWN making. If he had followed his teachers instruction then the incident would not have happened. Draco must learn to take responcibilities for his OWN actions which so far he has shown no sign of doing so.

trustworthy

[awesomeness.livejournal.com]

Hagrid is very trustworthy, I mean look at the way Dumbledore treats him. He trusts Hagrid. With Dumbledore being who he is, one would think that Hagrid would have gotten the boot awhile ago if Dumbledore didn't think he was worthy of it.

Just because Hagrid brings alot of odd creatures to the table, he shouldn't be looked down upon because of it. He loves all those creatures and wants to share them with others like anyone else would if they found something that they are deeply interested in. He shouldn't be at fault for those who aren't willing to follow the rules and pay attention to them. Although he is a teacher, there is a fine line between teacher and babysitter.

Also, if Hagrid didn't expose the kiddies to these creatures, who would? By sharing them with the students, he is teaching them to protect themselves against them. By showing them that these are out and about the real world, he's giving them life experience. Sure he can show them pictures and what not but first hand experience is always the best.

rebecca * gryffindor

Re: trustworthy

[jupluna.livejournal.com]

By sharing them with the students, he is teaching them to protect themselves against them. Yes...and this is why student are hurt, burned, or worse during his classes.

And don't get me started on Dumbledore...he's just as bad as Hagrid is with the "safty" issue.

Juppy of Slytherin

[jupluna.livejournal.com]

As "lovable" as Hagrid is...even Harry and Co. are scared wittless in his class. If it was anyone but Hagrid doing the things he was having the children do...the golden trio would have been out of it LONG ago. So yes...it IS Hagrid that is a fault and dangerous...just because he's allowed to get away with it doesn't mean that its the right thing to do.

Not to mention...you would think that the time he spent in Azkaban would have made him THINK about the dnager of his animals and his teaching methods. Sure he was wrongfully imprisoned...but that doesn't mean that it was ok to raise giant spiders in the castle...he didn't even seem to feel sorry for giving Harry and Ron the clue to go LOOKING for the spiders even when they were almost eaten.

Danger...no doubt about it. He doesn't THINK...he just DOES. Definate Gryffindor actions...but with a heftier price then just detention...his actions could lead to death.


Juppy of Slytherin

[tangerinesidhe.livejournal.com]

Hagrid raised the giant spiders as a third year student! I'm sure that most of the teachers did stupid things when they were children. The difference is, that Hagrid was punished much more severely for his actions than he deserved. His spiders never actually hurt any of the students, and yet he was expelled anyway. As for sending Harry and Ron to the spiders--he was trying to have his name cleared. The spiders were friends of his, who had never attempted to harm him. Many people have pet dogs who are loyal and lovable who then shock the owner by trying to bite a stranger. It does not mean that owner has been reckless--they have just never had an experience that would lead them to expect such behavior.

Destiny//Gryffindor

[prettyveela.livejournal.com]

Hagrid is a danger to students because when he feels overwhemled by life, he tries to escape with alcohol. Now Hagrid is of age so he's free to drink, but Hagrid is also a teacher in charge of dozens of students, how do we know that he won't come to class one day intoxicated because he's overwhelmed by life? :\

Hagrid is a danger to the students because he lacks the understanding, skills, and intellectual maturity to teach his students how to handle dangerous creatures.

Hagrid is a danger to the children and should be removed from his teaching position, because he's careless and blinded by his love of dangerous creatures to teach and protect his students properly.


PrettyVeela/Slytherin

[pfc-rat.livejournal.com]

how do we know that he won't come to class one day intoxicated because he's overwhelmed by life? :\

All of the teachers drink wine in the great hall and have access to it at all times, so how do we know that any of THEM won't come to class drunk? Just because someone might do something, does not mean they will, and the idea of firing someone because they have a drink on their time off is a completely ridiculous notion at best. Snape has access to all sorts of dangerous potions and could incapacitate or kill people he doesn't like, so should he be fired because of something he COULD do? It's absurd.

Melissa, Gryff

[vampirehobbit.livejournal.com]

A danger to the Order as well the students

It's all very well and good to be 'a nice person' or 'a good soul', but as my mother always used to tell me, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Hagrid means well, of course, there is no doubt about that, but simply meaning well in such a complex and dangerous situation is simply not good enough. Apart from the fact that Hagrid has been known to bring ferocious beasts within dangerous proximity of students, he also isn't exactly what you'd call tight-lipped is he? As we've seen, it only takes three mildly curious children to extract the truth about top secret affairs from him. Those of you in favour of him might argue that he only let the trio know these things because he trusted them, and he wouldn't make the same mistakes around Malfoy, for example. Well, to that I say, that all it would take, then, would be a cunning and well-placed spy, and Dumbledore's trusted secrets may soon be falling into Voldemort's hands. Dumbledore has a spy, so who's to say that Voldemort doesn't have one around too? It wouldn't take long for information to be extracted from Hagrid, just like the information about Fluffy in PS. This makes Hagrid a danger not only to students but to the entire magical community in that he is a liability.

Loyalty is all well and good at surface value, but as it has been illustrated many times before in the series, what lies at surface value is worth very little indeed, instead it is what is deep inside that matter. Hagrid may seem a good friend, but he has the potential to bring the entire Order of the Phoenix crashing down.

[timydamonkey.livejournal.com]

Hagrid has been known to bring ferocious beasts within dangerous proximity of students

In a way, that's a useful thing. I mean, there's no doubt knowing how to fight dangerous things helped him in the Triwizard Tournament. It's also to do with the element of surprise - Voldemort could do anything. For all anybody knows, he could send a beast to attack Hogwarts or the Order (I'd use Nagini as an example, but that only works for the Order, as they haven't learnt about basiliks practically - other than perhaps Harry - or they'd all be dead). Basically, having practical experience can save lives, and some of the things used fighting any magical creatures can be used on Death Eaters (take impedimenta and stupefy - Harry learned them to fight creatures rather than Death Eaters, if I remember correctly, but they're still useful spells).

To summarize, what I'm trying to say is that the practical experience is more than useful, even if Hagrid doesn't always mean for his creatures to be fought. Also, it protects pupils from worst-case scenarios such as Voldemort using magical creatures for his own purposes - which he could well do.

-Chloe, Ravenclaw.

[mmulberry.livejournal.com]

Hagrid put his students in a dangerous situation every time he gives a Care of Magical Creatures class. Apart from bringing in creatures that are obviously much too violent or dangerous for the age level of the students; he has no wand. If I were to take Care of Magical Creatures, I would feel a lot safer knowing my teacher had the power to stun a rowdy animal from a distance. Yes, his size gives him an advantage over most other people, but if a student and a dangerous creature get too far away from him, and something happens, the few seconds it takes him to run over and restrain the animal physically could be the difference between injured and dead. Whereas a full wizard or witch could stun the animal almost instantly.

Heather, Hufflepuff

Loyal AND Trustworthy

[anodein82.livejournal.com]

Hagrid is a wonderful teacher that broke away from the monotiny of the everyday class. Yes he did introduce creatures that the students of Hogwarts would have NEVER been introduced to, so in this case it was a preventative so that the students would know what to do in the real world. I think that it was a smart move by Hagrid. Exposing them to more creatures than what they normally would have studied under a different teacher is actualy a blessing because the other teachers follow the set curriculum instead of diversifiying the lessons. Yes he has a facination with dangerous creatures. But even if he didn't his personallity would allow enough leaway so that he wouldn't follow the system to the exact lettter. Teachers who follow the system to the letter never ever encourage their students to try to their fullest ability. Take for instance Snape, he is the meanest teacher at Hogwarts, yet his students are the ones who press themselves to achieve higher marks then what they would in any other class. Same with Hagrid, he made his subject more interesting so that his students would try to understand each of the creatures with more clarity.

*~Lori~*
*~Gryffindor~*

Still a danger...

[crooked.livejournal.com]

Sure, Hagrid "broke away from the monotony" of the standard CoMC fare. Does that mean one should just overlook the fact that he endangered all of his students' lives?

Not in the least.

His class could be very interesting without it being dangerous. He could still introduce the hippogriff to students but under close supervision and with his careful instruction, as in the case of Harry. Instead, he let the hippogriffs off their leashes allowed the students to approach them individually and at will. He should have structured that particular lesson in a way that was much safer to all students involved. The fact that Malfoy's accident was partially due to his not paying attention does take some of the blame off Hagrid. It also, however, illustrates further the point the Hagrid should have considered all possible scenarios and realized the danger present.

Hagrid just lacks the ability to think in a clear, thorough and rational manner -- thus making him irresponsible and inept at being in charge of students.

cj//Hufflepuff

[k1mono.livejournal.com]

Loyal and trustworthy teacher

Hagrid has not only proved his loyalty to Dumbledore, but also to Hogwarts. Hagrid dearly loves his life there. He has been deemed a truly trustworthy advocate of the school, and although many are at first overwhelmed by his physical presence, they soon see how loyal and humble he is.

Although Dumbledore can be portrayed as having at times ill judged moments, especially in regards to employing a few suspicious DADA professors, employing Hagrid as teacher of "The Care of Magical Creatures cannot be justified as one of these.

Certain unjustified prejudices come to light in regards to Hagrid, too many focus on what they perceive to be a some what limited intellect, the saying "gentle giant" can imply a patronising tone. Therefore he is open to attack at the suggestion that his teachings will result in great harm to the students. I attack that suggestion by the belief that even that which would be deamed harmless could infact prove to be the opposite.

Hogwarts teachings are always going to involve some level of danger, life for these students are on a different level to their muggle counterparts and therefore danger will be a everyday reminder in some degree. It is how they use their knowledge that is going to be the key to survival

Living in an imperfect world students will always dislike a specific teacher, and even test the more likable ones. How do we know if Transfigurations class is stress free, would we know if Trewlawney has a death wish, certainly many students have a low regard of her.

Regardless of whether Hagrid informs his class of the dangers of magical creatures many many times, there will always be some one who will ignore and test, often resulting in both student and teacher paying the price. Hagrid accepted the decision of Buckbeaks execution (not read POA book as yet, relying on the screen version) with great strength despite him knowing that it wasn't his fault. He taught his students to the best of his ability and covered the guide lines. No doubt Draco won't forget his silly mistake soon either, as he plainly regarded this lesson with less than good grace from the very start, thus it obviously indicated that regardless of what Hagrid would say, Draco would close his ears.

Despite the fact that these students are still regarded as children, there are obviously such students who are wiser than others, and listen to their teacher with respect and then there are others who try and undermine their teacher with a determination that would be better spent watching their wiser counterparts, and taking note.
To say that Hagrid is a teacher who would blindedly put his students in danger is perposterous. It only takes one student who is determined from the very start to disrupt a lesson no matter how long the teacher has been teaching, whether a newbie or a seasoned tutor.

I believe that many would discriminate Hagrid in the worst case.

Ren//Gryffindor.

[mmulberry.livejournal.com]

I agree that what the students learn in care of magical creatures will have a big impact on their futures, because who knows when or where they'll meet some strange beast. The problem is that Hagrid spent so much time on Flobberworms, who knows what else was on the curriculum that he skipped over? It could something that becomes vitally important in the future, in the coming war.

Heather, Hufflepuff

[loved-gamgee.livejournal.com]

Hagrid is in his own way a wonderful person, there is no doubting that. he's loyal, caring and compassionate, but he does have a fault when it comes to being a little too caring and compassionate to certian dangerous creatures.

Prof. Hagrid has a history that dates back to his childhood of bring himself and others into harm's way by having in his posession dangerous creatures. giant spiders, dragons, blast-ended skrewts and hippogrifs just to name a few.

i think that Dumbledore needs to think of the student's saftey as well as Hagrid's well being. no good can come from a teacher who endangers himself and his pupils. prehaps some sort of set restraints should be set before Hagrid is allowed to keep teaching, if he is allowed at all.

Jill//Hufflepuff

[tangerinesidhe.livejournal.com]

Acramantulas, dragons, blast-ended skrewts, and hippogriffs are all very interesting creatures to study. That Hagrid has first-hand experience with and knowledge of these creatures is invaluable for education. He can teach the students from real-world know-how instead of the blurbs in a text book. It is important that a teacher have practical knowledge in their subect.

Secondly, while these creatures may scare people--none of them have harmed the students, save the last example. And it is important to note that had young Mr. Malfoy been paying attention to the lesson and instructions he would not have been hurt. Any classroom can be dangerous when students goof off, but that isn't the teacher's fault. In the muggle world, students cut themselves with scalpels during dissection, but that doesn't mean the teacher is dangerous for allowing them to dissect.

Fear of a creature only gives it more power over you, and more power to hurt you. By knowing about these creatures, and having the chance to observe and study their behavior, the students will know what to expect should they come across them in the real world.

Destiny//Gryffindor

Forgive me if this has been mentioned...

[atalantapendrag.livejournal.com]

...but Hagrid is, due to having been expelled from Hogwarts, not technically allowed by law to use magic. Therefore, he is handicapped as a teacher; he cannot fall back on binding spells should a creature prove especially troublesome, or healing and protective spells to protect his students. CoMC is a dangerous class at best. It should be taught by someone fully equipped to ensure the safety of the students.


Atalanta Pendragonne, Slytherin

Re: Forgive me if this has been mentioned...

[semirose.livejournal.com]

While Hagrid cannot rely on his magic to keep the students secure, he can rely on his natural affinity toward animals and his own strength. Also, many magical animals are resistant to magic, so even if the teacher could use magic, that wouldn't really matter in some cases.

Also, as we have seen, not all magic users have an affinity for healing magics. Snape sends students to Pomfrey as does Hooch when the student gets hurt.

Hagrid may increase the danger factor a bit with his animals, but he does protect his students. We have seen one instance where a student has gotten hurt due to his class, and even a teacher who could use magic would not have been able to stop that.

Maia//Ravenclaw

hmm

[bend-my-spoon.livejournal.com]

Hagrid has not been a menace to anyone. He is good natured, he is loyal to his friends. He is loyal to Dumbledore all the time, when he says jump Hagrid says "How high" He is loyal to Harry and the crew in that he protects them from all that he can.

Hagrid has been extremely trustworthy to everyone he has encountered. Never has he back stabbed anyone, or done anything out of his way to harm another person. It is not in his character to do any of these harmful things to anyone. The thought of that is just absurd.

Victoria-Gryffindor

Re: hmm

[redamatherine.livejournal.com]

He may be loyal but he is not very good at being trustworthy. It doesn't matter if he has not back-stabbed anyone, for all you need is one slip of the tongue and we have ourselves a mess again. In Hagrid's case, he had several slips of the tongue and revealed to Quirrel how to get past Fluffy. Thanks to this, Ron, Hermione, and Harry (all only 1st years!) were placed in danger as they too found out from Hagrid out to get past Fluffy and ventured down to go save the sorcerors stone. If Hagrid is a good example of trustworthiness, I'd really like to know what an example of disloyalty would be.

Carys->Slytherin

Has anyone mentioned this yet? Well, anyway...

[gir-m20.livejournal.com]

Let us not forget Grawp (hope everyone has read the 5th book). Hagrid willingly brought a full-fledged giant to the Forbidden Forest, under no direct orders from the OoTP. Sure, more power to Hagrid for being able to go request aid from the giants, and it's super nice that he wants to be with his half-brother, etc, etc. However, giants are very unstable and very dangerous. To have one of them just meandering around Hogwarts grounds is unthinkable. Even the centaurs, usually aloof to anything outside their herd, are scared of Grawp. We witnessed what happened to Harry and Hermione when they encountered him in the forest. Just imagine if it had been any other less capable student. The fact remains that Hagrid is willing to put the school and students in danger to satisfy his own needs.

Nona
Huff-tastic-puff

Re: Has anyone mentioned this yet? Well, anyway...

[semirose.livejournal.com]

By bring Grawp *shudders* to Hogwarts, Hagrid was showing his loyalty to his family and his self sacrificing nature. Grawp was kept in a secure location and had not attacked any of the students, and if a student did walk into the Forbidden Forest and got attacked by Grawp, then quite honestly it would be the students fault as the Forest is forbidden. And honestly, there are many things that are just as dangerous in the forest, adding a giant doesn't change that.

So, Hagrid is not truly increasing the danger of the forest and he is being loyal to his family, not exactly spelling a recipe for disaster. And honestly, Hagrid's needs are not really in play in this, but rather Grawp's needs are. *can't believe I'm defending Grawp*

Maia//Ravenclaw

[pureblood-queen.livejournal.com]

Well Hagrid isn't even a full wizard is he? And I'm not even talking about him being half giant, he didn't finish school, in fact he didn't even make it past his third year. What knowledge can someone who hasn't made it past third year have? Sure he has been a grounds keeper and know how to handle himself when dealing with dangerous creatures. But thats all he can do, handle himself. He has no teaching credentials, no experience in dealing with students. His obsession with dangerous beasts can be very harmful for the children. And about his loyalty? Yes he feels very loyal to Dumbledore, and Dumbledore trusts him. But he's not very reliable, I mean you give him alcohol or you steer the conversation a certain way and he gives out important information like candy.


Susan~Slytherin

[sweet-air18.livejournal.com]

I don't think finishing school has anything to do with Hagrid not being knowledgeable. I don't think finishing school should even be thought of as a reason. There are many people around the world that did not finish school, but could still have more knowledge than those that did.

What knowledge can someone who hasn't made it past third year have?

Books. Common-sense. But mainly books. There is such a thing, that you could learn information from books.

But thats all he can do, handle himself. He has no teaching credentials, no experience in dealing with students

I wouldn't exactly say he has no experience in dealing with students. He does live at Hogwarts. He does have many friends that are students. And yes he might not have any 'teaching credentials' but Dumbledore still gave him the job for teaching CoMC. That must count as something. Giving out a teaching position just like that, acquires lots of trust and honesty.


Elizabeth//Gryffindor.

[sarahdocbb.livejournal.com]

Safe and Trustworthy

Hagrid is a trustworthy asset to the school, if it weren't for him then many of the school tasks would not get done. He keeps the grounds so that the students have a safe place to be during their off time. His cabin is located at the base of the forbidden forest so he can keep the students from entering it. And because of his size, he is a great protector for anyone who needs him. If he hadn't come upon Harry in Knockturn Alley then he may have been killed by the dark wizards and witches there.
Also if Hagrid wasn't there then the creatures on the grounds wouldn't be cared for. And the creatures are needed to teach the students, and train them for situations that may be dangerous if they come across them alone.
And the number one reason why Hagrid can be seen as safe and trustworthy is, Dumbledore has his full trust. If Dumbledore didn't think that he could be trusted he would not have him around the students. Or in the Order as well. He gives Hagrid very important jobs to do. Just like the night Harry's parents were killed, he wanted Hagrid to bring Harry to him. And while McGonagall had her doubts, Dumbledore felt Harry was completely safe.

~Sarah~
~Gryffindor~

[crooked.livejournal.com]

It is true that Dumbledore trusts Hagrid completely.

But, Dumbledore can be considered biased when it comes to Hagrid. He has, after all, cared for Hagrid since he was orphaned in his 2nd year. That would make Hagrid like a son to Dumbledore, undoubtedly meaning that he has very strong emotional ties to Hagrid. It is very easy, even in the case of a great wizard like Dumbledore, to let emotions cloud your better judgment. He clearly has a soft spot for Hagrid.

Does Dumbledore favoring him and caring for him make him anymore safe or trustworthy than the next wizard? Unfortunately, it does not. Hagrid has proven himself to be careless and irresponsible more times than anyone in charge of the well-being of students should ever be.

cj//Hufflepuff

Danger!

[crooked.livejournal.com]

I will concede two points on Hagrid's behalf to start off: he has the best of intentions and he is unflinchingly loyal.

HOWEVER, that said, he still poses a threat to the safety and well-being of the students. To begin with, when he was expelled (which, in and of itself, I do not hold against him) he was unable to complete his schooling. He is, therefore, not a fully-trained wizard. Also, Hagrid seems to view the world with an often child-like point-of-view; his way of thinking tends to be overly simplistic. This is most assuredly not a good trait for a professor to possess -- even more so when he is a professor in a subject that can expose the children to potential danger from time to time.

For example, Hagrid wasn't necessarily out of line for introducing the children to Buckbeak the Hippogriff... he just didn't go about it the proper way. Granted, he warned the children and instructed them on how to approach Buckbeak. He did, however, fail to take any further precautions to safeguard the children. Buckbeak was not restrained in any way to prevent him from injuring a student, such as the case was.

Hagrid also has broken a few rules that could have had very serious consequences. For one, he created Blast-Ended Skrewts from manticores (an extremely dangerous animal) and fire-crabs -- in direct violation of the 1965 Ban on Experimental Breeding. He also hatched a Norwegian Ridgeback egg, intending to raise the dragon -- which is an illegal pet. Until his name was cleared in Myrtle's death, Hagrid was not supposed to perform magic -- he still managed to do so, however, by somehow hiding his wand fragments in his umbrella. Of these infractions, the most serious involve the Skrewts and Norbert the dragon. The skrewts could have done some serious harm to a student who mishandled them (intentionally or unintentionally). Norbert would have been impossible to tame and contain as a fully-grown dragon and, on the grounds of Hogwarts, that could have led to student or faculty injuries or death.

It's not that Hagrid does these things with the intention of harming anyone; he simply does not think before he acts. He is very much like an overgrown child in that he does what he desires without any regard of the possible "ripple effects" of his actions. It was a long-time dream of his to raise a dragon (what with his fascination of the less cuddly magical creatures) so he acquired Norbert's egg in a card game without taking the time to think about what would happen in the future. He was just happy to have achieved his goal and thought of nothing else at the moment. He does not seem to possess the "good sense" that is expected of most adults. True, even adults make mistakes. But in Hagrid's case, the mistakes are more the result of careless behavior than anything else.

And finally, he is - as I previously mentioned - unflinchingly loyal... but to a fault. He is so very grateful to Dumbledore for caring for him from his 2nd year up until the present that he will do any and every thing Dumbledore tells him to. He also is very grateful to The Trio for helping to exonerate him in the matter of Myrtle's death. But, does his loyalty to those few blind him at times of his responsibilities to all others? I point to the incident with Draco Malfoy and Buckbeak. Hagrid was so preoccupied with The Trio and the Gryffindors that he wasn't able to properly watch Malfoy in order to perhaps stop his injury. Yes, Malfoy did not heed Hagrid's warnings... but if Hagrid was more attentive to all of his students he most likely would've been able to intervene.

Hagrid is not a bad person in the least; he's just not the most responsible of wizards. For that reason and those listed above, I believe that Hagrid is indeed a danger to the students of Hogwarts.

cj//Hufflepuff

Danger

[idleclockwork.livejournal.com]

Rubeus Hagrid is undoubtably quite a character in the Hogwarts community. While he is either loved or hated by readers of the Harry Potter series, it is quite clear that he is a danger to both himself and others, even if he doesn't mean to be. Hagrid is a giant- well, a half of one- but wether it be a feature of his race or simpl of his own self, he has an impaired ability to make correct judgements and assessments. This, coupled with his abnormally large size and love of animals is quite disasterous- Hagrid adores dangerous creatures who hae all been graded with not just a few X's by the ministry. While normal people with the normal ability to judge situations would stay away from these animals if they did not have the proper training, or at least take the proper precautions- Hagrid quite happily mingles with them and treats them as if they are harmless.

The important thing to note is that Hagrid's size allows for him to interact with quite large (and dangerous) creatures, however anyone of a normal size is not completely able to do the same without coming out of it with many injuries. Hagrid is the Care of Magical Creatures professor and it is probably this that makes him most dangerous because he is influencing younger people to do the same and interact with animals though they do not have the training or the size to enable them to abstain from injury.

Not only does Hagrid introduce students to dangerous animals, but also to dangerous habits. Hagrid sometimes turns to alcohol, younger students more easily influenced will not see the danger in this. Hagrid also introduces them to illegal activities such as gambling, resorting to the black market (the dragon egg) and creating illegal mixed breeds without permission from the ministry. Some students will then come out of this thinking these activities are alright to participate in, and ultimately get into trouble with the law.

Hagrid, although loved has habits which younger students see and may not link these to wrong judgements on Hagrid's part, and then participate in these habits just as Hagrid does. It is in this that he is harming the students, and therefore he is of great danger to them in the long run.

Kim, Slytherin

Respect factor

[prettyveela.livejournal.com]

There's one thing that Hagrid lacks that all the other teachers seem to have mostly from their students and that's respect. Since a lot of people see Draco as big, bad, and evil, let's look at other people who I think represent how a lot of the student body feels about Hagrid as a teacher, Hermione, Parvati, and Lavender.

Hermione: One of the smartest and brightest students at Hogwarts. Yes Hermione is a friend of Hagrid, but she's never quite warmed to Hagrid as a teacher. The best evidence of this is in OotP after Hagrid introduces them to Grawp.

Oh come off it Harry! said Hermione angrily, stopping dead in her tracks so that the people behind her had to swerve to avoid her. "Of course he's going to be chucked out and to be perfectly honest, after what we've just seen, who can blame Umbridge?"

Harry's observation of Parvati and Lavender after Hagrid comes back from his "mission":

Hagrid's reappearance at the staff table at breakfast next day was not greeted by enthusiasm from all students *snip*

Parvati and Lavender, exchanged gloomy looks and shook their heads. Harry knew that many of them preferred Professor Grubbly-Plank's lessons, and the worst of it was that a very small, unbiased part of him knew that they had good reason: Grubbly-Plank's idea of an interesting class was not one where there was a risk that somebody might have their head ripped off.

Even Harry knows deep down that Hagrid isn't the best person for the job. Game. Set. Match.

Hagrid doesn't even command respect from his own students, he shouldn't be in a teaching position at Hogwarts, or any other school for that matter.


PV/Slytherin

DANGER

[redamatherine.livejournal.com]

It is easy to view Hagrid as the friendly caretaker who has every good intention of redeeming himself after he was expelled from Hogwarts due to the Aragog incident. We see this through Dumbledore's trust in him to bring Harry to the Dursley's. Yet even if Hagrid does mean well, there are still the mistakes that keep on reoccuring and cannot be ignored. Aragog may have been a harmless spider when being raised, but it is clear that when it tries to attack Harry in the 2nd book, that it was a mistake form the bery beginning to try and raise an oversized spider for nothing good can ever come from that. With Fluffy, Snape was dangerously injured. But raising unreasonable and dangerous animals was not Hagrid's only fault. When speaking to the "hooded stranger" at the tavern, Hagrid proves that he cannot keep a secret. He may try, but it is unwise to entrust such an important piece of information or responsibilty to him for he lets things slip without realizing. Overall, all these points add up making him a walking time bomb, for no one ever knows when the next potential disaster could happen.

Carys->Slytherin

Re: DANGER

[sarahdocbb.livejournal.com]

Hagrid should have no reason to redeem himself, because there really wasn't any Aragog incident. He was framed by Riddle for the crimes that HE was commiting. Aragog never actually did anything to the students to endanger them. And Fluffy was placed there to protect the Stone, so its job was to dangerously injure anyone who came near.

Sarah/Gryffindor

[cantatrix05.livejournal.com]

Placing Hagrid in the role of teacher is a danger to the students.

Hagrid does possess some admirable qualities and does provide useful service to Hogwarts. He is loyal to the school and would not knowingly (see below) compromise the school; he has better than average facility with magical creatures; and he is able to perform well-defined tasks in an acceptable manner. All of these qualify him for the position of gamekeeper but he has some glaring deficiencies which should disqualify him as a teacher.

1. Lack of Magical Skills- Hagrid was expelled from Hogwarts (the reasons are immaterial now) and did not complete his magical training. In spite of his innate skills with magical creatures, he is not a strong enough wizard to keep students safe around them. Students will not always do the right things around these creatures (i.e. Draco and Buckbeak) but the wizard-teacher must be faster and stronger (in a magical sense) than both the student and the creature.

2. Lack of Appropriate Teaching Methods- Hagrid often fails to anticipate the students reactions to the creatures. Even those students who like him find his teaching methods frightening and suspect. (Witness their relief, in spite of themselves, when a new professor was assigned in Hagrid's place.) It is hard to imagine Hogwarts turning out too many graduates with a desire to pursue Care of Magical Creatures after instruction that was this jarring of an experience.

3. Lack of Good Judgment- Hagrid has a history of divulging important secrets while intoxicated, hatching and raising an illegal dragon, sending students away from his protection while in the Forbidden Forest, and maintaining dangerous creatures on the Hogwarts grounds in close proximity to the students.

Hagrid is an adequate gamekeeper but as a teacher he is a danger to the students.

cantatrix05/slytherin

[tangerinesidhe.livejournal.com]

1. An individual does not have to be a trained wizard in order to care for or control magical creatures. Hagrid has proven this. He is the individual responsible for the care of Hogwarts creatures, despite his lack of formal magical training. Also, unlike the previous CoMC teacher, he has retained all of his limbs during the course of his career working with magical creatures. He is highly skilled in his field, a field which does not require the ability to use a wand.

2. He uses modelling techniques. He uses concept check questions. He informs the students of what sort of behaviors lead to injury so that they know to avoid them. He supervises students while they work. Sound teaching methodology to me.

3. Dumbledore, whom I and many in the magical world respect a great deal and consider quite wise trusts Hagrid's judgement. That's enough for me. While we may not understand the reasons he makes certain choices does not immediately make them bad. We cannot condemn that which we do not understand.

Destiny//Gryffindor

[dramedy.livejournal.com]

Hagrid is loyal and trustworthy. He is the one who rescued Harry from the remains of his house. He is the one who brought the Philospher's Stone to Hogwarts. He works hard as both Gamekeeper and a teacher. While he may not be a full wizard, he has shown himself more than capable of handling animals and a class more dangerous than other "real" wizards(could you see Lockhart handling a class about thestrals, or even crups??). Some may say that things could get out of control, and others cite his bloodlines. this is the magical world, anything could go wrong. Look at Lockhart, who is a graduate of Hogwarts, and how he was incapable of handling a bunch of cornish pixies. Umbridge, another Hogwarts graduate, refused to allow the students to do ANY spells, for fear of the danger. Whilst he may have let some slip in the first year, have you seen him make the same mistakes since? And who's to say that real world experience, compared to learning from Hogwarts, isn't just as good?

Lauren//Ravenclaw

[crooked.livejournal.com]

He is also the one who thought it perfectly okay to raise an Acromantula at the castle in his youth. He is also the one who, as an adult, thought it was fine to illegally acqure a dragon egg and attempt to raise it on castle grounds. Hagrid is also the one who broke the Ban on Experimental Breeding and exposed his Blast-Ended Skrewts to students without knowing their full dangers. He is also the one who allowed the students to face hippogriffs individually for the first time without his close supervision.

Hagrid's main problem is that he apparently lacks the ability to think thoroughly and rationally. This is what leads to his inadvertantly placing the students in potentially dangerous or fatal situations.

cj//Hufflepuff