hogwartsishome | Debate!

May Debate has now officially ~~started~~ ended!

The topic: Hagrid: A danger to the students or a loyal and trustworthy teacher?

The sides:
-Slytherin & Hufflepuff, 'danger to the students'
-Ravenclaw & Gryffindor, 'loyal and trustworthy teacher'

The points:
Your first qualifying comment earns you 10 points and 5 knuts, every qualifying comment after that will earn you 5 points and 2 knuts.

The rules: can be found here

If you have any questions or concerns, please leave a comment to yesterday's post (here). This post is for debating only.

Have fun!

-Marije

Current Mood: excited

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

pfc-rat.livejournal.com

If Hagrid truly thought that Buckbeak was a harmless cute fuzzy animal, then why would he teach the children about the dangers of them? Why would he tell them the proper way to approach him? Why would he issue protective gear for the handling of Blast-ended Skrewts? He knows better than anyone the danger, but the difference with him is he sees where a creature fits in, and likes it on its own merits, as opposed to people like Umbridge who want anything that is not cute and harmless put to death.

As Hagrid himself put it, "even a dog will bite you if you bait him."

From:

prettyveela.livejournal.com

If Hagrid truly thought that Buckbeak was a harmless cute fuzzy animal, then why would he teach the children about the dangers of them? Why would he tell them the proper way to approach him?

And when he's giving those warnings, Draco, Crabbe, and Goyle aren't paying attention. Hagrid is a teacher and he should have made sure everyone was paying attention to this important information and they aren't. He just happily assumes that everyone is listening and will take the proper precautions. When dealing with such a dangerous subject, one should not assume and make extra sure that the entire class is paying attention and he didn't. It's his fault that Draco got injured because of his assumptions.

Hagrid does not know about danger better than anyone. He's almost gotten all 3 members of the trio killed in the HP series and that's because Hagrid is half giant, he has a threshold for pain than the average human wizard/witch and thinks nothing of what he exposes them to.

PV/Slytherin

From:

pfc-rat.livejournal.com

Hagrid is a teacher and he should have made sure everyone was paying attention to this important information and they aren't.

And how would you suggest he go about this? By going up to every individual student and screaming it in their faces? I'm not sure what school you went to, but kids don't pay attention... it's a fact of life. Neville was injured in flying, DADA and other subjects, Seamus was injured in Charms, and students are injured all the time in various subjects, including Quidditch. And yet NO ONE has claimed that one student's idiocy is the direct fault of the teacher.

Melissa, Gryff

From:

prettyveela.livejournal.com

And how would you suggest he go about this? By going up to every individual student and screaming it in their faces? I'm not sure what school you went to, but kids don't pay attention... it's a fact of life. Neville was injured in flying, DADA and other subjects, Seamus was injured in Charms, and students are injured all the time in various subjects, including Quidditch. And yet NO ONE has claimed that one student's idiocy is the direct fault of the teacher.

Well magical subjects are dangerous already don't you think? However, Hagrid is the only one out of those teachers that has a darn good chance of killing a student. Do you really think that Hagrid's ability to understand and comprehend danger is the same as McGonagall, Sprout, or Flitwick?

Sorry, but I don't want a ten foot tall thirteen year old teaching to children. He needs to be removed immediately.

PV/Slytherin

From:

pfc-rat.livejournal.com

From:

prettyveela.livejournal.com

I would say that Potions, Charms, and flying stand just as reasonable a chance of killing a student. Hagrid's subject matter is dangerous, pure and simple. Short of eliminating all practical application of study, students will get hurt. Period. Hagrid, however, has gone to extraordinary lengths to minimize the danger, not to mention his size allows him to intervene when other teachers couldn't/wouldn't. Case in point is how he put himself in harm's way to save Malfoy from his own idiocy.

So you're saying that Hagrid's ability to understand danger is on the same level as the other Hogwarts teachers? No way.

So you're saying you're prejudiced? That a person who is tall is not capable of classroom instruction? Hardly an logical response.

And you didn't have a logical answer. In that case I think Snape needs to go, since he's over 6ft.

The key in that sentence is ten foot tall thirteen year old, not the height. Meaning that Hagrid doesn't have the mental capacity or understanding to teach to thirteen year olds. He needs to rise above their level to be a proper teacher and he's never going to do that. Hagrid is simply a pity hire by Dumbledore and it shows.

PV/Slytherin

From:

pfc-rat.livejournal.com

So you're saying that Hagrid's ability to understand danger is on the same level as the other Hogwarts teachers? No way.

You have continuously claimed that Hagrid has some kind of mental deficiency or retardation that would somehow inhibit him from teaching, and yet at no point have you offered any proof, other than that you think he's dumb. You're stating a personal opinion, and offer no fatcs to back it up.

Melissa, Gryff

From:

prettyveela.livejournal.com

You have continuously claimed that Hagrid has some kind of mental deficiency or retardation

Please quote where I've said that Hagrid is retarded or dumb. I've said that Hagrid doesn't have the mental capacity to understand that the creatures he deals with are truly dangerous for young students. How that equates to me saying dumb or retarded in your book is beyond me.

that would somehow inhibit him from teaching, and yet at no point have you offered any proof, other than that you think he's dumb. You're stating a personal opinion, and offer no fatcs to back it up.

The facts are the things he's done at Hogwarts. Sneaking a dangerous dragon into the school, Malfoy being harmed by Buckbeak on Hagrid's first day of teaching, leaving a dangerous giant in the forest. What else do you need to show that he's always putting students in harm's way for his own selfish acts? A death to prove to you that Hagrid isn't qualified for his job? Well stick around because it's surely going to happen with this pity hire of Dumbledore's, I promise you.

Sorry but there are certain attibutes I expect from a teacher and Hagrid isn't it. His inability to gauge what kinds of creatures are safe for 13 year old kids to be around boggles me.

If my son/daughter were in his class, I'd want him sacked. Plain and simple.

PV/Slytherin

From:

timydamonkey.livejournal.com

Malfoy being harmed by Buckbeak on Hagrid's first day of teaching, leaving a dangerous giant in the forest. What else do you need to show that he's always putting students in harm's way for his own selfish acts?

How's Malfoy being harmed by Buckbeak selfish? That was purely his own fault. If he'd truly been scared of a hippogriff (as people claim), he'd have listened to Hagrid and followed his instructions carefully instead of blatantly ignoring him and ending up in his own getting hurt. Perhaps he was showing off in front of his friends or something, nontheless, it was still his fault. Hagrid had warned them. There's a probability that, even if it wasn't on the current agenda, they'd have had to learn about hippogriffs anyway. Malfoy doesn't seem to mature much, and I'm sure he'd do the same thing again, even if he was older. What was Hagrid supposed to do, wrap everyone in enough cottonwool that they couldn't get hurt despite being warned what would get them hurt? He had his warnings and ignored them - there was nothing further Hagrid could do; he wasn't to know that his instructions would be ignored. Besides, you need a certain amount of responsibility and maturity to do a subject such as Care of Magical Creatures (think doing experiments in chemistry).

-Chloe, Ravenclaw.

From:

prettyveela.livejournal.com

If he'd truly been scared of a hippogriff (as people claim), he'd have listened to Hagrid and followed his instructions carefully instead of blatantly ignoring him and ending up in his own getting hurt. Perhaps he was showing off in front of his friends or something, nontheless, it was still his fault. Hagrid had warned them. There's a probability that, even if it wasn't on the current agenda, they'd have had to learn about hippogriffs anyway.

Teaching dangerous creatures your first lesson isn't wise, IMO. The first day of class he should have started off slow, get the students to know him a bit with less dangerous animals before introducting them to Buckbeak. Yes they probably would have had to learn about hippogriffs, but not as 3rd years and not on your first day of teaching!

That's the point, Draco and other students weren't listening. It says that in the books and because Hagrid didn't continue to reiterate his instructions, it's his fault. He's the teacher and you MUST make sure that when dealing with a dangerous subject to repeat yourself once, twice, heck three times if you have to and pay attention to students at all times. Hagrid just doesn't have what it takes to command respect from the students like other teachers do in their classes.

Draco may have his faults, but I agree with a lot of the things he mutters under his breath in Hagrid's class. Hagrid should go back to being a groundskeeper and stay that way.

PV/Slytherin

From:

tangerinesidhe.livejournal.com

From:

prettyveela.livejournal.com

Hagrid is not the only teacher who deals with potentially lethal subject matter. An accident in potions could definitely prove deadly. Likewise, there are situations with charms that could kill. The one lesson that you conveniently omitted was DADA, in which the teacher is possibly more likely to be addressing lethal subject matter than is Hagrid.

And you basically repeated everything I just said but worded it differently so I have to ask what your point was?

Magical subjects are already risky, why risk it with someone who doesn't seem to fully understand how risky they are? I've yet to see someone prove that Hagrid has the capacity to understand that he understands the danger that he's putting students in. He hasn't done it yet so far in the books, so why in the world would he do so as a teacher? He's a pity hire by Dumbledore, plain and simple.

PV/Slytherin

From:

awesomeness.livejournal.com

From:

prettyveela.livejournal.com

But where else are they going to get a professor as passionate as Hagrid? He sees the good in these creatures and wants to share that knowledge and insight with others. He understands the dangers by warning them. If they don't heed that warning, they're taking the consequences into their own hands.

Professor Grubbly-Plank can do just as good of job as Hagrid with passion and responsiblity in my opinion. It's the reason why Hermione and others enjoyed their lesson so much because they weren't scared half to death during the lesson and they were able to learn properly.

I wouldn't consider having faith in someone as pity. He believes Hagrid can do the job so why not give him a chance? Since he has the authority to hand it out, he also has the authority to take it away and he hasn't. Shouldn't that say something?

If we get on Dumbledore we'll be here all day *laughs*. See I do question Dumbledore's hiring criteria. If hiding an Acromantula, an unhappy Giant, and an illegal dragon, on the grounds isn't enough to not hire Hagrid, then I don't know what is.

Sure Hagrid has passion and no one can deny that he cares about Harry, but he's always *thisclose* to killing someone. Hogwarts is one of the most respected institutions in Great Britian, yet incompetent people like Hagrid and Trelawney work there? Both of them need to be sacked.

PV/Slytherin

From:

tangerinesidhe.livejournal.com

A teacher is not omnipotent nor omniscient. Especially not a first year teacher. Hagrid cannot know what every student is doing at every instant. He issued a warning about the hippogriffs. He stated explicitly what not to do. It is not his fault that Draco got injured. If Draco was too cool to pay attention to the lesson, then he should not approached a potentially dangerous creature.

Also, that is the only serious injury that has occurred during Hagrid's lessons since the beginning of his teaching career. He must be doing something right with issuing precautions, because he has a better record than some of his more senior colleagues.

Destiny//Gryffindor