Since the Pope died...

[zentraedi-shep.livejournal.com]

When Pope John Paul II. died last Saturday night, I couldn't help but think about this:

Is there religion in Harry Potter?

Well, of course they have Christmas, and they burry their people in graveyards, BUT what does a wizard or witch believe in? Are they Christian, Moslem, Hindu, or do they follow starnge Pagan paths or Voodoo or something like that?

What do you think?

Comments

[boley.livejournal.com]

I honestly cannot believe that the wizarding world would be christian, as christianity pretty much prohibits and condemns everything their world entails. In fact, I was quite confused the first time I read the first book and saw that they celebrated christmas. It seemed very oxymoron-ish to me.

If I had to stab in the dark, ignoring the fact that they did celebrate christmas, I would say it would probably be a more wiccan/pagan type religion that they would follow. I could see the wizarding world believing in some sort of god, but definitely a more natural? (I cant come up with a word to describe what Im thinking) God.

In fact, maybe it makes sense that they celebrate christmas, as December 25th used to be a pagan holiday that was transformed into christmas to make it easier on the pagans that were converted to christianity (or something like that).

Oooo..itll be interesting to see what else will be said on this subject, as Ive always wondered myself.

[medens-lupus.livejournal.com]

I think that they celebrate christmas mainly so that their students feel more at home. We know they make a bigger deal out of Halloween then Christmas. Being a Jew though, I wonder how Hannukkah is celebrated in the wizarding world.

[boley.livejournal.com]

How do the Jewish handle the supernatural? (witches and wizards and all that)?

Is it condemned like in christianity?

[ascendingflame.livejournal.com]

I'm really glad that JKR didn't make that an issue out of this as I find that very tedious.

I've always imagined that the kids at Hogwarts just had their own religions like children in any kid had. But they don't bring it in because there will probably be several religions with all the different ethical and cultural backgrounds of people in Britain. I really think wizards just like Muggles are Christians, Hindus, Moslems, Jews, Atheists and what have you. They just seem to be very tolerant about these things (they have their pureblood issues instead :D).

[loved-gamgee.livejournal.com]

from what i can tell, there is no set religion. but seeing as wizards are suppose to be around us, some even born into Muggle families, why couldn't they be a certian religion? public schools are full of people from all different religious backgrounds, yet they all get out for Christmas break. although to be PC they call it a "winter break" here in Georgia.

i think it's a "to each his own" kinda thing in their world as much as it is in ours. which could be one reason they don't have a religious class of some sort.

i'm a Christian and don't believe that the sort of magic that is practiced in the "real world" is a good thing since the Bible says it's not...but HP is a make-believe world. anything goes there...so why not have different rules for the beliefs. since the kid doesn't have much choice about being a wizard/witch, especially ones born to Muggles.

[medens-lupus.livejournal.com]

I'm honestly, the wrong person to ask. But in the Jewish faith, thing are tolerated a lot more than in the Catholic faith. Personally I'd love to see a wizard menorah that lights the candles itself and says the prayer with you.

(frozen)

[pfc-rat.livejournal.com]

I'm a Christian and don't believe that the sort of magic that is practiced in the "real world" is a good thing since the Bible says it's not

So you don't actually believe it yourself, but you're just saying that because someone else told you to?

[rushofsilence.livejournal.com]

I have thought a lot about this before, but I never wanted to bring it up as it can irk people, and I hate live journal drama. It's almost as bad as high school drama.

Anyways, wouldn't you think that Jesus is just a wizard exposed? That's what I always thought, but then again, I'm partly agnostic, and part atheist >.<

Jessie ♥ Slytherin

[boley.livejournal.com]

But we are pretending that the wizarding world is real, just for the sake of arguement.

How would a christian (or any other religion for that matter, just using christianity as it is the most popular anglosaxon religion) family look upon one of their kids if they turned out to be a witch/wizard?

How would a child feel, in learning that he is a witch/wizard, about his religon, especially at such a young and impressionable age? I, personally, would not be able to follow something that condemns what I am....

(okay, I know its all make-belive, but I love religon, and anything to do with it, and this has always made me wonder...)

(frozen)

[loved-gamgee.livejournal.com]

no. i'm saying it because i believe it. and i'm not going to sit here and defend myself or get into an arguement about it. the mods will be all over us.

[pfc-rat.livejournal.com]

Christianity would probably be defunct, as most witches and wizards could do the same magic tricks that jesus is said to have performed: healing the sick, walking on water, water into wine etc.. In fact, in the HP world, it could be argued that jesus was in fact a wizard who perpetrated an enormous hoax on the planet.

[boley.livejournal.com]

Strattle the fence and just say agnostic. Then you cannot belive or deny. Makes my life easier. :-D (Im agnostic as well)

[boley.livejournal.com]

Ooooo...Good point.

Just like Voldemort could go into the muggle world and claim he was the antichrist...as most muggles are oblivious to the magical world, theyd probably believe him (killing people with just green light, speaking to serpents, etc, etc...)

[awesomeness.livejournal.com]

ill go with drusilla_malfoy on that one. like anywhere else in the world, there's no set religion. people are free to choose what they want to believe in. although there will always be others against them, it's their own choice....as it should be. everyone having one special gift isn't going to turn them into a super cult or anything.

(frozen)

[pfc-rat.livejournal.com]

Fair enough, but keep in mind the Bible also says it's a sin to eat meat on a Friday, come into contact with a woman on her period, wear poly cotton clothing, plant two different crops in the same field, or not practice ritual animal sacrifice.

[loved-gamgee.livejournal.com]

it is something to ponder. and honestly, i can't really answer. because this is a made up world, i've always taken it for what it is. it's not mine to really toy with...but the thought has crossed my mind, especially when Christmas time rolls around in the books. and it's a very insightful topic and debate, as long as mud doesn't get slung.

but seeing as we're pretending that pretending is real (now that will boggle your mind if you think about it enough...lol) then i suppose that if God (since we're doing Christianity in this scenario) created people to be like this, something they're born with, then it could be a spiritual gift since the Bible talks about people being given spiritual gifts, such as speaking in tongues, compassion, serving, prophetcy.

*shrug* who knows? only Jo Rowling...

[atalantapendrag.livejournal.com]

A little like the one in this story (http://archive.skyehawke.com/story.php?no=5171&PHPSESSID=ef0900fd7e34a5287541794e3da350c9) I wrote a few years ago?

[imafairbeater.livejournal.com]

heh, I'm agnostic as well. My dad thinks I'm an atheist...I'm not. Although, I feel myself drifting more and more that way. But I like to be different and call myself a Deist (silly history major that I am... :-D)

[beccastareyes]

Actually I was sent a link by one of my more devout friends on Christian mysticism that analyzed magic in the Bible and made a case that a lot of the perceived prohibitions against magic are actually against what HP fans would consider the Dark Arts (remember, back when the King James version was being translated, 'witch' meant 'someone who made a pact with the Devil for power' and neither 'Wiccan' (especially since Wiccan was invented in the 20th century) nor 'any magic user'). Which is perfectly consistent with HP wizarding philosophy.

I think religion in HP is a combiantion of whatever Muggle religion was common when wizards dropped out of Muggle contact in the Middle Ages, modified for magic and wizarding society (convincing the wizarding population that they should play homage to a Muggle in Rome as the highest authority on spiritual matters would probably not go over well, so I doubt Catholicism would catch on) and a good dose of Enlightenment-style thinking and humanism -- that most of the world can be understood via magic or applications thereof and that magic can make most anythign better if you work at it enough. So, I would imagine most British wizards are vaguly Christian, but highly secular (like most of northern Europe, or so I am told).

(frozen)

[loved-gamgee.livejournal.com]

those are also rules given to the Hebrews while they were on the way to the land God promised them. this was before Jesus' time and therefore these rules were given to them to keep them pure and keep the temple pure. all those rules except the ten commandments were cancelled when Jesus died on the cross, as he was the final way of making all sinners pure before God. and the only reason the ten commandments were not cancelled is because they are mentioned again as being set rules in the New Testament.

hope that clears that up a bit...

[atalantapendrag.livejournal.com]

The magic in HP is more like traditional ceremonial magic, which has strong Christian influences, than Wiccan or most other neo-Pagan practices.

(frozen)

[pfc-rat.livejournal.com]

How would a christian (or any other religion for that matter, just using christianity as it is the most popular anglosaxon religion) family look upon one of their kids if they turned out to be a witch/wizard?

Probably the same way they would react by finding out a son/daughter is gay - they either pull their heads out of their stone aged teachings on cleanliness and morality written by a bunch of paranoid, superstitious, ignorant, mysoginistic neanderthals and learn a bit about love and acceptance, or they disown their own children based on a book written when people were wiping their arses with their bare hands.

A friend of mine was raised mormon, but when she decided to not follow that religion, her parents kicked her out of the house (at the tender age of 16), and have refused to speak to her again or having anything to do with her unless she goes back to being a mormon.

The child also will have the choice - either renounce the faith they were indoctrinated brought up in and risk the complete abandonment of their families, or deny an aspect of themselves that they have no power to change, and will most likely resent for the rest of their lives.

[zentraedi-shep.livejournal.com]

That really sounds good, since in medieval time the church used itself spells to bring the more pagan population of rural areas to the bible. For some time priests and monks were considered "white" magicians who were doing wonders of the heaven...

The power of the Pope as the one leader of the Catholic church was established quite late in the middle ages, so I think the wizards could be a sort of "pagan Christians", believing in God but still using the blessings, charms and spells of old...

(frozen)

[intotheheart.livejournal.com]

I think it's totally inappropriate to criticize someone else's religious choices on this board, and it was in no way necessary, or on topic -- as the topic was what religion you think the wizard world would be. Please consider this a warning.

(frozen)

[pfc-rat.livejournal.com]

You're quite right. And the part that condemns witchcraft is the same part of the old law that was done away with in the new testament. And since no part of this particular practice involves the worshipping of any other God, which would fall under the jurisdiction of the first commandment, then there's nothing in the new testament which would indicate that the practice of magic is unacceptable.