First Debate Of the New Term!

[debate-geeks.livejournal.com]

Hello everyone! The first debate of the new term is here!

Details! In OotP, Molly and Sirius have an argument about what Harry should know about what is going on and what he should not know. It is your job to side with the character that your house has been given and give reasons why.
RULES! Each comment must be at least 3 sentences long. If you are posting a comment and you "don't expect points for it" just don't post it! It'll save me lots of confusion! This is a FRIENDLY debate! No capslocking unless it's the fun kind, and be nice to your fellow HiHers!
Points / Knuts: 10 points/5 knuts for the first comment and an additional 5 points/2 knuts for each comment after that. THE TOP COMMENTER WILL GET AN ADDITIONAL FIVE POINTS AND FIVE KNUTS!

Gryffindors and Slytherins will be on Sirius' side.
Hufflepuffs and Ravenclaws will be on Molly's side. Half way through the debate I will drop the sides and you can comment on your true opinion on the matter!

SIDES HAVE BEEN DROPPED!

MAKE SURE TO SIGN WITH YOUR NAME AND HOUSE, AND PUT IT IN THE SUBJECT LINE IF POSSIBLE!

BEGIN!

Comments

heather//gryffindor

[http://users.livejournal.com/_shaomao_/]

Sirius is right in wanting to tell Harry everything that is going on. Harry has faced old Voldy already on more than one occasion and has lived to tell the tale (so far). It is wrong to try and hide things from him, that eventually he is going to find out anyway. Better to hear it from his godfather and friends, then to just be thrown into all of it blind. I understand why Molly doesn't want her children to know what is going on, but she is not Harry's responsibility. She has no right to tell anyone what Harry can and can not know.

heather//gryffindor

JellyBellys//Gryffindor

[jellybellys.livejournal.com]

I concur. Harry has faced a lot more than most of the people who are *members* of The Order; and treating him like a child is both ludicrous and insulting. He is a child, but one that had to grow up way too soon. Just repressing him will lead to rebellion, the proof is in the rest of his actions. He refuses to learn Occlumency, he sulks about Dumbledore, and he ends up getting Sirius killed all because he wasn't allowed to hear some vital information.

JellyBellys//Gryffindor

Re: heather//gryffindor

[shutterbug12.livejournal.com]

I feel that while it's best if Harry is given information, I don't agree that he should be privileged to all Order information. The fact remains that he is not a member of the Order and shouldn't expect to be treated as one, regardless of his experience.

That being said, Harry should be given information that he needs to know for a couple reasons: 1.) To pacify him. Without receiving enough information to satisfy him, Harry is more than likely to venture off in search of answers himself, a decision that can result in more harm than good. 2.) To allow him to defend himself. Harry clearly can't defend himself against something of which he is unaware.

However, he is not an adult and, I believe, not yet mature enough to handle particularly loaded information. Harry is, after all, a teenager, not immune from raging emotions and hormones and he has already demonstrated his tendency to recklessly embark on dangerous missions, simply because he feels that it's the best thing to do. While Harry, in possession of sensitive Order information, may go with his impulse and act, the Order may rather lay low, at least temporarily, until they can acquire additional information or form a strategy.

So, I think it was a good idea to give Harry some information, but I think Molly was right to cut off the conversation before it entered shaky territory.

Pamela//Hufflepuff

Gryffindor

[la-petite-muse.livejournal.com]

Molly Weasley is a mother, and it's natural for a mother to be protective of her kids, especially Harry Potter, since she considers him like a son to her. ( If i remember this correctly).

However, Harry is no longer the 10 year old boy. He's a young man with curosity, and fair amount of knowledge of what's happened in his life. More importantly, what's going has much to do with Harry. I think it's unfair to Harry to keep information from him. Harry,I believe, is has a right to know what's going on, and more especially because his life is could possibly be in danger. Sirius doesn't believe in keeping secrets away from Harry knowing full well that his much of his life was clouded in secrets ( now that he's slowily figuring it out what's going on).

I think it's time that Harry knows and understand what's going on, but also understand the potential dangers involved in knowing this information. Sirius is wanting to give Harry a heads up and giving a dose of truthfulness is never a bad thing, IMO.


la_petite_muse//Gryffindor

Re: Gryffindor

[shutterbug12.livejournal.com]

I don't think Sirius's intentions are quite so innocent. Sirius seems to be confused himself, especially in regards to his own role in Harry's life. He should act responsibly, serving as more of a father figure than a chum. While Harry should be aware of the general picture, as Lupin said, he should not be privy to all sensitive Order information, as he is still a teenager - not an adult - and has not yet matured enough to make critical judgment calls objectively, rather than impulsively, as well as understand the gravity of his role in the battle against Voldemort.

So, yes, I think he should be informed, but only with information he "needs to know," as Dumbledore ordered.

Pamela//Hufflepuff

imthelobster, Slytherin

[imthelobster.livejournal.com]

It's the age-old question of whether or not to shelter your children.

Sirius is right in thinking that Harry should know what is going on. Kids are far more perceptive than adults tend to give them credit for, and it's better for them to hear the truth, rather than picking up random tidbits and trying to piece it together themselves.

Sheltering Harry will only harm him in the long run, and Sirius knows this -- Molly has the mother hen view, which is understandable, but will only serve to get Harry hurt. Whether she likes it or not, he is the only one who can defeat Voldemort, and he needs to know all the facts in order to prevail.


imthelobster, Slytherin

JellyBellys//Gryffindor

[jellybellys.livejournal.com]

Sirius is right in thinking that Harry should know what is going on. Kids are far more perceptive than adults tend to give them credit for, and it's better for them to hear the truth, rather than picking up random tidbits and trying to piece it together themselves.

Exactly! Look what Harry's piecing together led to; Sirius died, Tonks almost died, Hermione almost died, Neville got Crucio'd, and a bunch of other people almost died/were injured.

Sheltering Harry will only harm him in the long run, and Sirius knows this -- Molly has the mother hen view, which is understandable, but will only serve to get Harry hurt.

Sheltering is really the wrong way to go in this situation, and Sirius was completely right. Sheltering doesn't do Harry any good, he's already seen Cedric die, he can vaguely remember his parents deaths, he has almost been killed numerous times, his friends have almost died, he's fought Voldemort and dementors and Umbridge...what else is there to shelter him from? Molly was just being a control freak.

JellyBellys//Gryffindor

Seridia::Gryffindor

[seridia.livejournal.com]

I think Sirius is absolutely correct in letting Harry know everything. He's proven himself time and again to be able to handle whatever is thrown at him, and he's generally intelligent enough to sift through the information and make up his own mind about it. As others have said, Molly is a mother and it's her *job* to worry and fret over the boys; that said, sometimes you need to wake up and realize that your boys aren't as helpless as your motherly doting tells you they are.

Now with correct signature action!

Seridia::Gryffindor

Re: Seridia::Gryffindor

[blondeweasley.livejournal.com]

I agree. Although Molly meant well from a mother's point of view, I don't think that she was really think about Harry in particular. She was thinking, "This is a child who can't handle this." Harry is not a normal child. Losing everything is bound to give you more maturity than most. With (correct) information, Harry generally does well in making good choices. Without the information, which is what Molly wanted, he can't do much and goes back to being the annoying, "out-of-the-loop", whining Harry. XD

Rissa//Ravenclaw

Gryffindor

[sinfullypure.livejournal.com]

While I know Molly is only trying to protect Harry, I believe Sirius is right. He (Harry) has a right to know in that he is almost an adult and has faced Voldemort many occasions.

Also, I believe Sirius would know more about what James and Lily would have wanted for Harry, regardless of the situation.

Joscelyn//Gryffindor.

Re: Gryffindor

[seridia.livejournal.com]

Oo, that's a great point you have. Sirius was one of James and Lily's best friends - he was supposed to be their secret keeper. It's highly likely that he has a better understanding of Harry's parents philosophical and moral views and can interact with Harry (by deciding whether to withhold or give the information) accordingly. This is something that Molly simply cannot do even if she was friends with the Potters.

Seridia::Gryffindor

tsukinofaerii:|:Slytherin

[tsukinofaerii.livejournal.com]

Sirius is correct to want to tell Harry everything. Harry is no longer a small child. He's a teenager facing an incredibly dangerous situation. Molly naturally wants to protect Harry and her own children from the world, but she fails to realize that by "protecting" them she's preventing them from understanding the true depth of the situation. In children or teenagers who could be safely sequestered away from the danger this would be acceptable, but Voldemort and his followers will come after Harry and his companions. He will have to make choices to defend himself and others in the near future, possibly without an adult there to help. By denying Harry the information he needs about the current situation, she's setting him up to make uninformed (and thus potentially distasterous) decisions. Sirius understands this, but his own "shady" past and lack of parenting experience prevents Molly from understanding his point. In truth, Sirius' lack of parenting experience may be what helps him see the best path available. He has no preconception of Harry as a "child", and is therefore able to treat him as he is currently, rather than as he was.

tsukinofaerii/Slytherin

JellyBellys//Gryffindor

[jellybellys.livejournal.com]

Really well said! It's like if before the Tri Wizard tournament, Harry's teachers had refused to teach him anything and Hermione hadn't helped him practice for the maze, and they just shoved him into it. Harry would have DIED if he didn't know the Accio spell (taught to him by Hermione) and the analogy holds true in the Molly/Sirius/Harry case.

Not only does Molly set up Harry for disasterous decisions, but they happen. I firmly believe Sirius never would have died if Molly had just shut up and let Sirius tell Harry about the prophecy. If Harry didn't have the curiosity about the DOM visions, he would have learned Occlumency, or at least improved. If Harry had known what the DOM visions were about, he never would have gone to "rescue" Sirius. There is no down side to telling him; Voldemort already knows the prophecy is there. All Molly's sheltering does is play into Voldemort's hands.

JellyBellys//Gryffindor

Jack//Ravenclaw

[xenylamine.livejournal.com]

I think that Molly is absolutely correct in saying Harry shouldn't know what exactly is going on. While he isn't a 'little kid' anymore, he is still only fifteen, which is hardly an age at which one can be expected to process the whole of such detailed and rather dark current and past events. While Harry is a rather precocious fifteen year old, and he has seen many things, including death, he can't be expected to be able to psychologically cope with the massive burden of all of this, especially because it related to him in such a strong way.

Jack//Ravenclaw

Re: Jack//Ravenclaw

[sinfullypure.livejournal.com]

While Harry is still only 15, he has gone through what many 15 year olds wouldn't have dreamt of going through at that age.

While I agree that it is a psychological burden, I believe it is something harry could handle. I mean, the kid fought Voldemort. Most witches and wizards are scared to speak his name, let alone stand infront of him.

Joscelyn//Gryffindor

Rich :: Slytherin

[overglow.livejournal.com]

Coming from someone who is still in Harry's age range, I think Sirius was absolutely right in thinking Harry should know what was going on. Being fifteen in itself is enough for me to think that it is justified that he should know what was going on, even more so topped with the fact that Harry deserved to know what was going on more so than some adults, considering it involved him personally. He'd already thwarted Voldemort four times times in his young life, including when he was one year old. Molly, naturally, wanted to protect them from things that would haunt them and leave them scared, but by doing so, she would have failed in preparing them from what was to come.

After all, it is Harry. She should have known if the situation arose, Harry would fight Voldemort again. He did have a 'saving people thing' after all.

Rich :: Slytherin

Elizabeth -- Gryffindor

[draconic-rogue.livejournal.com]

I said a bit further down that adults don't give teenagers enough credit for how much they can take and understand, and it goes along perfectly with your argument. Even though Harry doesn't always show himself to be the most emotionally mature of teenagers, he's still strong enough to take the truth and not be completely devastated by it.

As you said he's fought Voldemort before. Harry's gotten though a lot in his young life and seen and done a lot more than most wizards will ever see or do, he has a right to know what's going on and it's insulting that people like Molly would keep it from him.

Shannon//Gryffindor

[queenofnarnia.livejournal.com]

Even if there weren't assigned sides, I would side with Sirius. I understand the Molly is kind of Harry's surrogate mother and that she wants to protect him, but hiding the truth only puts him in more danger. Harry needs to know what is happening. He's a young adult who has been through more in his few years than most people (muggles and wizards alike) go through in a lifetime. He is mentally and emotionally prepared for it.

The more he knows, the better he will be able to protect himself against Voldemort, and the greater the chances of his defeating him.

Shannon//Gryffindor

Elizabeth -- Gryffindor

[draconic-rogue.livejournal.com]

Very well said.

Knowledge is power and to fight Voldemort, Harry will need both to help him. This definitely isn't a situation where it's a good idea to have the left hand be ignorant of the right.

heather//gryffindor

[http://users.livejournal.com/_shaomao_/]

(my second argument haha)

It has been a long time since I was in the same age range as Harry, ::sighs:: but I feel that at that age people NEED to know things that are going have long term affects on them. Both physically and mentally. Sirius knows that Harry has been through a lot at such a young age and while the first instinct is to protect him -- nothing can protect him better than knowledge of what lies ahead. Molly trying to prevent Harry from knowing that is only going to hurt him in the long run.

Elizabeth -- Gryffindor

[draconic-rogue.livejournal.com]

And since Harry is one to act on the fly and make spur of the moment decisions, especially when he doesn't have all the facts, it's best and safer for everyone if he does know.

Adults also tend to be quick to think that teenagers can't handle adult knowledge but they're able to handle a lot more than we give them credit for. They're also starting to become adults and are wanting and needing to take control of their own lives. They still need guidance but they need to be able to handle themselves too.

[gluedupsidedown.livejournal.com]

I agree that Molly is trying to protect Harry. And, it's in his best interest. She knows that he will eventually find out everything Sirius want's to tell him; however, she also realizes that he does not need to know just yet. Just because Harry has already fought Voldemort and has no delusions about the dark wizard, does not mean that he should be forced to deal with all of that, while he could have just a bit longer living as a child. Molly recognizes that Harry has never really been given a chance to act his own age, and that keeping things from him for a time might allow him to be a little more carefree in a world that, for him, otherwise would be utterly chaotic. And, that he still has plenty of time to act the hero and save the world.

Carly//Ravenclaw

tsukinofaerii:|:Slytherin

[tsukinofaerii.livejournal.com]

Harry's life and the lives of people around him are placed into danger by what he doesn't know. The knowledge wou;ld be hard for him to handle, but much easier than knowing that one of his friends died because of it. Harry's never been able to be a child, and treating as one now only angers and frustrates him. He's actively in danger, and has been since he first touched a wand. At 15 years old, keeping information from him only places him in more danger by not enabling him to make informed decsions.

tsukinofaerii//Slytherin

Jitterbug // Hufflepuff

[jitterbug5bi5.livejournal.com]

Although it may seem obvious to us, with our full view of the storyline, that Sirius was right and Molly was wrong, we have to remember that the characters at the time didn't know most of what we do. They didn't know ANYTHING about the prophecy, or even for sure that LV was still at full strength and coming after Harry. In that case, of course the first and best instinct would be to just keep Harry safe from all of that, which Molly tries to do. Sirius tries to treat him more as an equal, which may be an admirable thing to do in general, but it's not a very parental thing to do (I hate to say.. lol). Although both of them think they have his best interest at heart, I honestly think they were both acting kind of selfishly, Molly to shelter him, and Sirius to have a best friend again. However, I ultimately think that with the information they had at the time, Molly had the correct original instinct, regardless of how it turned out. As I said, with us knowing how Harry DID react and what did and would happen later, and what the backstory (i.e. the prophecy, etc) was, we might say that means she can't have been right. But I still think she deserves credit for making the right decision to the best of her knowledge. Because really, if Harry hadn't known ANY of the stuff he knew. he wouldn't have made even the rash decisions that he did (not that I'm remotely pinning the whole thing on him, the whole situation was a cesspool of guilt. lol). If he had known even more, he may have gone off before that and gotten himself and others killed as well, besides just Sirius (again, I'm not saying that HE got Sirius killed, just he COULD have gotten others killed if he'd had more info and gone off before that).

Jitterbug // Hufflepuff

tsukinofaerii:|:Slytherin

[tsukinofaerii.livejournal.com]

Even without our knowledge of how things turned out, Harry's character and past actions should have dictated that he be told everything they could tell him. Harry had a past history of winding up in trouble because he didn't know all the facts of the situation or responded to his attempts to get more information. In book one, he risked himself and his friends by going after "Snape" - if McGonagall or Dumbledore had explained the situation and responded properly when he came to her for help, he wouldn't have ended up in the Hospital. (Alternately, they might have realized that traps a first year can get through aren't the best of ideas for something like the Philosopher's Stone.) It started a dangerous precident where Harry doesn't look to adults for help or information, because they don't provide either. In book two, the process repeats itself when the Basilisk is set free and Harry doesn't know that Tom Riddle is Voldemort. If Dumbledore had told him the entire story previously, he would have been quite a bit more suspicious of the diary. In book three, they try to hide the truth of Sirius's betrayal of Harry's parents, and Harry actively confronts Sirius when he finds out! If the adults had been right about Sirius, Harry could have died. Book four is practically the only book where they're not keeping immediately significant secrets from Harry (that I remember), but by then the pattern was set. Book five is just a continuation of these mistakes. Harry will jump head-first into whatever trouble is brewing regardless of how much or little information he has. The best option would have been to inform him and set specific plans in place so he didn't go off half-cocked. Preparation and information might keep him from making rash decisions in the future.

tsukinofaerii/Slytherin

JellyBellys//Gryffindor

[jellybellys.livejournal.com]

Sirius is clearly right that Harry should know what is going on to an extent, in the order. If someone had just TOLD Harry what was going on, he would have A)Practiced much harder at Occlumency B)Disregarded all visions of the Department of Mysteries as bogus and C)Thrown less tantrums.

If he had known about the prophecy, he would not have gone to the DOM, and Sirius never would have died. Molly is overbearing, and although she means well, it is not her place to choose what or what not Harry gets to know. She is NOT his mother, his sister, his legal guardian. Sirius is Harry's legal guardian, as his godfather. Not telling Harry things led to a disaster, and Molly was cruel by unnecessarily dragging Sirius's time in Azkaban (for which he was innocent, and she KNOWS THAT) into the argument. It was irrelevant and only made her case weaker.

Jackie//Gryffindor

Re: JellyBellys//Gryffindor

[blondeweasley.livejournal.com]

From Molly's perspective though, how could they know that Sirius was going to die? As readers, we are able to quickly flip through a book, but this is not the case for Molly, Sirius, Harry, and any of the other characters. There is some limit to the knowledge of the reader, however. Harry knowing about the prophecy could have just as easily resulted in Harry's depression, causing him to jump off of the Astronomy Tower, land on Professor Flitwick, and then a student fails his OWLs because he never learned how to do a Cheering Charm before was squashed. This student, being very upset and not knowing how to cheer himself up, could then join the Death Eaters for revenge against Harry Potter, and become the next Voldemort.

You never know. :) Molly had Harry's best interests in mind, while Sirius only wanted to please his friend's thirst to know everything that's happening with everyone. Until we know for a fact what would have happened if Sirius had somehow beaten Molly in that argument, I can't agree that Sirius was right.

Rissa//Ravenclaw

Rissa//Ravenclaw

[blondeweasley.livejournal.com]

Molly has a very good point, one much more valid than Sirius' thoughts of telling Harry what Sirius thinks he needs to know. Okay, so maybe Harry has fought death, but he couldn't have stopped that. He had to deal with that even if he wasn't mature enough to. Things this serious that you have a choice of hearing, now those are different.

Think about it. This is Harry Potter. Boy Who Lived, yes, but also Boy Who Spends Entire Life In One Book Following Draco Malfoy Because He's Paranoid. We all know that Harry can overreact. Honestly, I don't think that he would be able to handle this knowledge.

Rissa//Ravenclaw

Caryn//Hufflepuff

[nyyhoneybee.livejournal.com]

I agree with you 100%. There is a choice of what he knows because it happened and there was no choice or stopping it and stuff that there is a chance of stopping before he finds out.

I think that Molly had a good point in not wanting to tell him and she was doing the right thing by keeping it from him. If it got to a point that he needed to know, then he would have been told

Caryn//Hufflepuff

Elizabeth -- Gryffindor

[draconic-rogue.livejournal.com]

The Order needs to be protected first and foremost since there are so many other lives at stake, but otherwise I agree with you completely. Harry has a right to know what's going on and not be kept in the dark. Harry is already so full of rage at everything that he's already been through and all the injustice he's seeing fromt he way the Ministry is handling things, he needs something to anchor him and if some basic knowledge of what the Order is doing helps him and eases his mind, then he should have that satisfaction.

Fangy//Gryffindor

[fangy.livejournal.com]

Sirius is definitely right with this arguement. First of all, because Sirius is his legal guardian, and although he has only been around for two years or so, thats not Sirius's fault, and if he could have been there for Harry he definitely would have been. Just because he was absent doesn't make him understand Harry's needs any less. Sirius knew his father and mother and probably understand Harry and how he feels a lot better than Molly does, even though she wants to protect him.

Sirius is also right because he gets that Harry should know. He's encountered and come out on top more than once with Voldemort, Harry's earned the right to know. He was the reason he left, and saw him come back. Though Harry is young, he has seen more into Voldemort's world than many people, and it is quite obvious they will be important aspects in eachother's lives, and thus Harry should know everything, even being just his age. Sirius understands this, and it is why he is right.


Fangy//Gryffindor

Elizabeth -- Gryffindor

[draconic-rogue.livejournal.com]

I don't think Sirius was right to instigate Harry getting involved, but I think he was right to push that Harry should know more. Harry has done a lot in his short life and seen a lot more than most of the people in the room (if not more than everyone in the room), and really should be kept in the loop.

There's still important details that he shouldn't know. For example, things that could possibly compromise the Order are things that Harry shouldn't know. But Harry should know a bit about what's going on to stop Voldemort, especially since his name is being dragged through the mud because of him letting the world know Voldemort is back.

[shutterbug12.livejournal.com]

I'm coming into this debate quite late, so I'm going to do my initial post without reading any comments, so I apologize for any repeat points. Oh, and since sides have been dropped, I'm more interested in investigating the issue at hand, while still maintaining a clear opinion on the matter. Here it goes...

We seem to have two extremes. Sirius feels that Harry should be completely informed and, more than that, he wants to be the one to share the latest news. Unfortunately, Molly seems to want Harry to know nothing, rather than what he needs to know. She attempts to thwart the entire conversation. While Molly is on the right track, she needs to be more objective and realize that Dumbledore is right in saying that Harry needs to be informed on a need-to-know basis. Since neither Sirius nor Molly adhere to Dumbledore's orders, I believe that they are both in the wrong.

Dumbledore ordered everyone not to tell Harry more than he needs to know, and it's not the greatest idea to go against Dumbledore. Sirius was wrong to instigate the entire argument. If Harry was going to ask questions, Sirius should have let him work up the courage to ask, rather than give him nothing short of an open invitation. It was irresponsible and inconsiderate of him, considering Dumbledore's orders.

Furthermore, Sirius's motivations seem slightly muddled. He's tempted to fraternize with Harry as if they're old friends. He fails to understand that Harry needs a father figure rather than a best friend. Sirius needs to take a lesson from Lupin, who remains sensible about the issue, as objective as possible while regarding Dumbledore's initial orders seriously.

Molly's motivations are equally biased. She acts a desperate mother would; she is willing to do anything to protect a young person that she cares for as her own son. Both Sirius and Molly and placing Harry in roles in which he doesn't belong - a best friend and a son - and allow their emotions to overtake their decisions. Consequently, they disregard Dumbledore's specific orders, not only causing discord among themselves, but also placing an unnecessary burden on Harry himself.

Pamela // Hufflepuff

Elizabeth -- Gryffindor

[draconic-rogue.livejournal.com]

I want to start off by saying that I really like your arguments. You made some really great points.

I think that Dumbledore mostly wanted Harry on a need-to-know basis because he realized that Voldemort was able to use Legilimancy on Harry without Harry's knowledge. We found out later when Snape told Harry about Dumbledore's suspicions that there was no need to keep that little piece of knowledge away from Harry, and yet it took quite a while before Harry was told. Knowing Harry's volatile temper, it would have made sense to let Harry know exactly why he's not allowed to be completely in the loop, but no one seemed to think that was an important thing to tell him.

I agree with you though that Sirius's method of getting Harry involved was wrong. He was completely disregarding Dumbledore's orders and could have (with Voldemort being able to basically see through Harry once he realized the connection) put the Order in danger.

Elizabeth -- Gryffindor

[draconic-rogue.livejournal.com]

Sirius is right to tell Harry what's going on because Harry is the one who is going to have to be the one to fight Voldemort. Everyone in the Order pretty much knows this and yet they're all willing to keep Harry in the dark. The only two that seem to want Harry to have any real knowledge of what's going on is Sirius and Snape.

While Molly has Harry's feelings in mind, his feelings aren't going to be what wins the war. Harry should know what he's up against and what stands in his way. If Molly had had her way, Harry could possibly walk into the final battle without having any knowledge other than what he's managed to somehow work out of others while Molly is away or what he's gotten by spying. The Order should be cooperating with Harry.

Lizzie // Hufflepuff

[littlefrog29.livejournal.com]

I get your point, but it must be remembered that Harry is a high profile target and any extra information he has just puts him in more danger. What he is told should be kept to a minimum so that he is not made even more dangerous to Voldemort and therefore more of a target. If Voldemort became aware that Harry knew Order business, he would be in great danger as itwould be seen to be easier to get information out of a young adult boy than out of hardened, experienced Order members.

Lizzie // Hufflepuff

Caryn//Hufflepuff

[nyyhoneybee.livejournal.com]

Quite simply put, Harry is not your typical child. From the time he was a baby, he faced Voldemort and won. And it wasn't the only time he has faced him as well. And anything Voldemort plans, he will be the one that will have to fight him, because Voldemort is looking to kill Harry. There is no reason why Harry shouldn't be told, in fact, not telling Harry might lead him into harms way.

Caryn//Hufflepuff

Iris/Ravenclaw

[mdmslytherin.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure if I quite agree. Of course Harry is not a typical child. Which is also something I want to emphasize; he's a child. He is, what, 15 years at the time of the OotP?
When I was 15 I, too, wanted to know everything about what was going on in my family or God knows what. That didn't mean I got to know everything. There are some things you shouldn't tell a 15 year old. And Sirius started about Harry having the right to know what's going on. Of course he has a right, since he plays a major part since everything that's happened in GoF at the graveyard. But also, telling him more, would make him more curious and could be devastating. I quite agree with Sirius ánd Molly,but on different things.

But then there is the argument that Harry will be the one to fight him. No offence to Harry, but at the beginning of the argument, it wasn't yet known that he would be the one to vanquish Lord Voldemort. Nor is he very well versed in offensive magic and I don't expect him to as he's yet to begin his fifth year then. And though he learns his DA a lot of defensive spells, he hasn't got enough knowledge to bring Voldemort down yet.


Anyway whether Harry should be told or not, it would lead him in harms way anyway (cause JK gets him into trouble in every book anyway), because if they tell him he'll figure something out to fight (like the DA in the ministry), and if they didn't tell him he would go on a mission or something with his golden friends to figure it out anyway.

Lizzie // Hufflepuff

[littlefrog29.livejournal.com]

Molly behaves towards Harry as if he is her own child and therefore understandably is highly protective of him. Sirius, on the other hand, acknowledges the danger but also wants to keep harry fully informed of things that will definitely affect him. I think a balance needs to be struck between the two - Harry shouldn't have been allowed to attend Order meetings because any extra information just endangers him even more, but anything directly related to him should've been discussed with him. He's old enough to make informed decisions with the help of the adults.

Lizzie // Hufflepuff

Pxyjuice // Hufflepuff

[pxyjuice.livejournal.com]

Boy oh boy the more I read from different people my choice sways too and fro. I like the balance that you seem to have come up with. Harry doesn't need to know ALL that was being said in the Order meetings, but anything prevelant to Harry and his life should be shared with him. Because while he is still a kid, he has dealt with enough dangerous situations to try to act rationally.

♥ Pxyjuice//Hufflepuff

Brandi // Ravenclaw

[queen-mab.livejournal.com]

Considering that every bit of Order information ultimately revolves around Harry, I think he should be allowed to hear all of it. So what if he's underage and not a member? He's been fighting Voldemort face-to-face ever since he was eleven, which is a lot more than half of the Order can say. I just think it's an unintelligent decision to not let Harry in on everything - he's the one who has to fight him in the end. I know this wasn't known at this point in the series, but I wish Dumbledore would have stepped in and told the rest of the Order to let Harry know about this stuff. Unfortunately Dumbledore couldn't make much contact with Harry in OotP, but there could have been some way for it to have been done. And maybe, just maybe, Sirius wouldn't have died in the end of OotP because Harry would have known more about what was going on and what the "weapon" was beforehand. I think it's dangerous to keep information from people that they could eventually need. I don't think Harry would have reacted to any of the information too rashly if an adult he respects told him not to.

Pxyjuice//Hufflepuff

[pxyjuice.livejournal.com]

With or without the knowledge I dont know if Sirius's death would have changed. I do agree however that it is dangerous to keep information from people who do really need it. In Harrys case the knowledge of what Voldemort and the Death Eaters are up to is prevelant to him because more than likely they are going to be going after Harry.

♥ Pxyjuice//Hufflepuff

Pxyjuice // Hufflepuff

[pxyjuice.livejournal.com]

Okay so who is in the right? Is it Sirius or is it Molly? I'm torn because I think they both were right at some point. Where Molly is concerned, she is trying to be a good mother figure to Harry because she does think of him as another son, and Harry I really think looks to her at times as a mom, so Molly tries to protect Harry just as she would her own child. But sometimes the best intentions have the worst outcome. And when it comes to choosing a side, I think I would choose Sirius.

Knowledge is power they say, and in Harrys case that seems to be extremely true. WIth what Harry has dealt with already and what we all know he is up against he really needs all the information he can have. Because knowing soemthing MIGHT happen, you can be more easily prepared for it, while not knowing you can't always win the fight. While Harry still is kind of young he has dealt with more than almost anyone has in their entire life and he can handle anything you have to throw at him.

♥ Pxyjuice//Hufflepuff

[yaakov.livejournal.com]

**skids in at the last minute**

I absolutely agree with Sirius. Even though his reasons for treating Harry like an adult aren't the most rational ones, I still believe that he was right in saying that Harry should know. Even if Harry were still a child, the state of the world is soon going to dictate that he can't stay one much longer. He's going to have to grow up, and fast. It's much better to treat him with respect and be straightforward and honest.

Also, personally, I believe that honesty is the best policy, except for when the truth is irrelevant (yay for pointless statements -_-). In Harry's case, this information was pretty vital.


Jenna, Ravenclaw

Pxyjuice//Hufflepuff

[pxyjuice.livejournal.com]

oooOOOOoooo! I like that the state of the world is soon going to dictate that he cant stay one much longer. and how true is that!? That made me think of the show Jericho - a bunch of bombs cause chaos in the US and as a result everyones lives are changed forever. You see kids that are still in high school adapting by surviving and running businesses and standing up for themselves and the deals that were made with them. And its the same for HArry Potter and the wizarding world, very soon things are going to happen that are going to cause Harry to step up and deal with the problem put in front of him. And because of that he should be treated as an adult and told the information that could potentially save him.

pxyjuice//hufflepuff