Question for the masses.

[boley.livejournal.com]

Okay, this involves voting. And since a discussion was just had the other day over voting was put here, I thought I would go ahead as well.
Slytherin voting. If they seem too much like a Slytherin, then they are muggle. If they dont seem like enough of a Slytherin, they end up going somewhere else. There is a application being voted on right now that many people have voted Slytherin (a few have gone other ways) but every person that is already in Slytherin has voted them Muggle for "pushing". Is it just Slytherin exclusiveness that makes it near impossible to vote someone that way? I mean, I just really hate to see people get muggled because they are just answering in a way that may seem to be Slytherin-esk. If someone repeats "intelligence" a load of times in an app, we dont Muggle them for pushing for Ravenclaw. We dont Muggle someone for repeating Bravery over and over again. Why then, if someone just seems "snarky" (gosh I love that word), do we Muggle them for Slytherin pushing? Will someone (preferably a Slytherin) please explain this all to me? Maybe its just the Puff in me.
And, thanks for your time. :-D
Andrea, Hufflepuff

Comments

[spiritedrinoa.livejournal.com]

Actually, when I'm voting, if someone repeats ANY of the key house words a million times in their app, I will often look past those key words and see what I see BEYOND their million times mentioned intelligence/bravery/what have you, because it's fairly obvious that if you're using the key words so much, you're TRYING to get into that house. And I'll say that that goes double for Ravenclaw, because you should at least be able to think of fresh ways to phrase your intelligence if you've truly got it.

If I can't see anything beyond that, then I would Muggle them for feeling that they tried too hard. Otherwise, if I saw some other house (or even the same house once all the punch words were removed), I'd vote them into a house.

As far as Slytherin goes, yes, some of it is exclusivity. We are an exclusive lot. But it also comes down to the fact that there's also a higher percentage of people that fit elsewhere OR are just trying to get into Slytherin than actually belong there. I think out of all the voting I've done, I've only seen maybe 2 or 3 apps that were trying their damnedest to get into a specific house that WEREN'T trying to get into Slytherin. I've seen more that I felt were pushing just trying to get into Slytherin house.

Becca, Slytherin

[it-burns-us.livejournal.com]

I think a lot of people are quick to say, "YOU'RE PUSHING IT!"

I'm with you, I'd rather NOT muggle anyone (in fact, that app that's out right now, I purposely didn't), but I'm very new here, and I don't have any OFFICIAL information. In general though, I agree with you.

I've been sorted into Slytherin before (with an old account in a different community) almost unanimously, but I didn't get one single Slyth vote here.

If you look at the info and see how lopsided the houses are (hardly anyone in Slytherin at all), then I'd say it's worth bringing up. :)

Elly of Gryffindor

[perrie.livejournal.com]

I find that most of the time, Slytherins are the ones who vote completely against the applicant getting into Slytherin. Theres very few times I've seen an applicant get a Snake vote from a Snake, unless the person really truly fits in that house, which has always seemed a little odd to me.

Slytherins, I find, are hard to define. I don't like always sorting the snarky ones into Slytherin, because damnit, I want to see a snarky Gryffindor too. There's a very fine line between actual traits, and pushing for it. I find checking the applicants journal helps me decide; you can get their personality across without them trying to push it.

However, sometimes you just have to go with it. If Draco Malfoy applied here, would he be muggled for 'pushing it'? The Hat barely touched his head, remember? Sometimes you just have to go with your gut instinct.

Perrie
-Gryffindor-

[spiritedrinoa.livejournal.com]

Theres very few times I've seen an applicant get a Snake vote from a Snake, unless the person really truly fits in that house

...wait, isn't that sort of the point of sorting? Putting the applicant where they fit?

As for me, I do tend to go with my gut instincts. I've voted Slytherin several times. I will admit however, that my Slytherin votes have been much fewer than my votes for Gryffindor or Hufflepuff - but I think that's also chalked up to the crowd that this community draws in. I personally feel that I've seen more Huffles and Gryffs come in and apply than Slytherins, and even Ravenclaws. I wish there were more true Slyth apps for me to vote for, but my gut feeling has been that the majority that I have seen are either pushing Slytherin, or sometimes fit more in another house (often Ravenclaw, because it seems that many Slytherins that I've seen come through are very Slytherclaw, as am I).

Becca, Slytherin

[hxcpunkchick.livejournal.com]

I think what many don't realise, is that one key characteristic of a Slytherin is subtlety. Most of us look for an applicant to show us that they're truly Slytherin material through their wording and answers, rather than them bluntly telling us "oh yeah, I'm ambitious."
It's not exclusiveness, but rather protectiveness because Slytherin is the house that seems to be pushed the most (with Gryffindor right behind that).
Oh, and I have Muggled people for constantly just saying their brave in their application. Especially if they don't even give me one example of how brave they are...

[ascendingflame.livejournal.com]

I totally second that.

House Voting Guide Needed

[mustbecrazy.livejournal.com]

This is reminiscent of chellemod's comment the other day. Like Elly, I am very new, but I want to advocate for a voting guide or at least clarity on house characteristics. Perhaps one reason why Slytherin is an apparent choice is because most of us feel -- at least more so than with some of the other houses -- that Slytherin's characteristics are apparent. When someone's comments seem "snarky," the assumption is that they are Slytherin.

I've been noticing that there have been few people sorted into Ravenclaw recently. If you're intelligent, that doesn't exlude you from being in any of the four houses. What then does that mean for Ravenclaw? If intelligence is one of the traits we see in an application, what makes a person exclusively intelligent? My assertion is that there is no such thing. Intelligence is mediated by experience, context, and other values that make you passionate about learning and knowledge. Personally, I assumed I would be sorted into Ravenclaw (it seemed obvious to me that I would be), but I was almost unanimously voted into Gryffindor (24/26 (http://www.livejournal.com/community/platform_934/55641.html#cutid1)).

I assert that a House voting guide could clarify some of these gray area issues. All Slytherins are not like Draco; all 'Claws are not like Cho; no Gryffindor is like Harry; and there's more to Huffs than Ernie Macmillan.

Maya * Gryffindor

Re: House Voting Guide Needed

[boley.livejournal.com]

Thats a super idea. Maybe could be a house project of sorts, each house producing their own list of traits and qualities that they each believe they posses.

(p.s. I also believed I would fit into Ravenclaw, but then realized it wasnt just being smart, but actually the willingness and drive to learn. Which is very not me.)

Andrea~~Huffley-puffer

[boley.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the great answers!
I wonder why so many people push for Slytherin. Just want to be housemates with Draco or is it just the "cool" house? :-)
I pretty much am just trying to figure this out, because I dont wanna upset a Slytherin for voting someone to their house that they think is horribly wrong for their house. (It bothers me when the majority of people vote one way, but those from that house vote another way). Ahhhh, its all so confusing. And Im really bored at work, so its keeping me enertained for a bit. :-)
Thanks again guys,
Andrea Hufflepuff

[marciamarcia.livejournal.com]

Well, obviously it's the cool house. Sans quotations, even.

Honestly, I think that it has to do with the fact that a lot of people want to be more badass than they really are (in that Shaft-like really smooth, whoopin' ass, takin' names kind of way) and feel that, in an online persona, they can be that person they want to be. And that person they want to be would be in Slytherin.

When a lot of people are voting Slytherin and I'm not, it usually has to do with the fact that the person is pushing this online persona and not themselves. And you can tell sometimes because, in their writing, they don't sound comfortable with it, because, of course, it isn't them.

And, finally, I would say vote the way you feel. You aren't going to piss any of us off too much by voting against what we think...we could very well be wrong. Few of us, after all, got nothing but Slytherin votes.

[marciamarcia.livejournal.com]

Maggie//Slytherin

[boley.livejournal.com]

Shaft would definitely be in Slytherin....

Cause hes one bad mutha *shut yo mouth!*

Sorry, that made me laugh... :-) And I see your point, I am fascinated by the Slytherin house, but I know I dont belong there, cause...I just know I dont. Oh well, I guess its just a matter of opinion who belongs and who doesnt. Eh.

[calliopeia17.livejournal.com]

Actually, I don't think it's solely reserved for Slytherin. I said "intelligence" a whole lot of times in my app, and was granted a few Muggle votes for it. (In self-defense, I wasn't intentionally pushing for Ravenclaw; just trying to establish that school/learning is a very important part of who I am.)

So I don't think it's entirely reserved to Slytherin. I've seen in happen a few other times in Ravenclaw too.

As for the Slytherins, personally, I think that the ambition that would drive one to try to be put into Slytherin is a very Slytherin trait in itself. So when I see that I generally try to give them what they want.

Calliopeia, Ravenclaw

[moonchild337.livejournal.com]

*shrugs* i think that its more like personal. If you feel someone is pushing too hard then vote muggle, Just because someone thinkgs someone else doesn't belong in their house doesn't mean its true. there are all kinds of people in each house (i.e. Lavender and Parvarti are SO different from Harry/Ron/Hermione). i, personally, hate voting muggle so if there is someone i think is pushing i tend to... not vote. i don't know, i think some people can be really overly protective of their house, sometimes rightly so. People go by the book (obviously, its all we have to go by) and the book is very one sided (not ALL Slytherins can be mean)

elise//hufflepuff

ps. none of this was directed at Slytherins (except the part where i said Slytherins), sorry i know thats what the orginal post was about

[mydocuments.livejournal.com]

Just because I'm a Slytherin, and I tend to think Slytherin is the best house, I'm very picky who I put in Slytherin. Bad writing and grammar is an automatic "No!", regardless of how Slytherin they may be in other areas. I think the absolute pinnacle of "Slytheriness" for lack of a better word, is how much care you put into presenting yourself. Subtle, well-mannered, someone who puts effort into their public face.

Like others said as well, Slytherin is often percieved as the "cool" house, or the house full of the so-called "bad boys (or girls)." Consequently, I think it makes a lot of people push that house (Just like people push Gryffindor, because they want to be in the same house as the Trio.) So, I'm more careful when sorting Slytherin, moreso than the other houses.

On the other hand, a lot of people also percieve Slytherin house as the mean, rude, evil Death Eaters in training. So, a lot of the time, I think people may do their best to push away from Slytherin. It's always tempting to sort them into Slytherin if they think they fit, regardless of whether or not they think they belong, but like Dumbledore so subtly said in CoS, it's our choices that determine who we are. If someone doesn't want to be Slytherin, I'm not going to force them.

Finally, it's very hard to tell Slytheriness from an application. Often, it's not one question that clinches the application for me. It's got a lot to do with the overall tone of the application, how much effort was put into the application, and so forth.

I hope this helped even a little bit.

-Juliet, Slytherin

[tangerinesidhe.livejournal.com]

Bad writing and grammar is an automatic "No!", regardless of how Slytherin they may be in other areas. I think the absolute pinnacle of "Slytheriness" for lack of a better word, is how much care you put into presenting yourself. Subtle, well-mannered, someone who puts effort into their public face.

But I don't picture Crabbe and Goyle fitting this ideal at all. They stuff their faces, are terribly unarticulate, I mean, even Draco comments on their lack of intellect.

[tangerinesidhe.livejournal.com]

Sorry, forgot to sign

--Destiny, Gryffindor.

[mydocuments.livejournal.com]

Every house needs cannon fodder. And bodyguards, also. You don't need to be smart to be a bodyguard. =)

-Juliet, Slytherin

[tangerinesidhe.livejournal.com]

Right, but you can't say so and so is not a Slytherin because ... when there are plenty of people already in the house who don't live up to that ideal.

I just really feel some days like a lot of the people in house Slytherin are willing to accept that there is a lot of diversity even within each house. On one side, there is complaint about everyone thinking the house is a certain stereotype, and on the other is an unwillingness to vote people in who don't live up to some internalized stereotype.

And, I'm not saying all Slytherins are doing this, but reading through the comments a lot are. And, I think that is unfortunate. A lot of the people I vote into Slytherin are people I actually think are really cool, and would like to vote into my own house, but know don't really belong there. And, there are people I have to vote into my house, despite having a poor first impression, because they couldn't possibly fit in anywhere else. It's the nature of voting.

I hope this doesn't come across as too confrontational.

-Destiny, Gryffindor.

[mydocuments.livejournal.com]

Not much is known about Slytherins in canon, moreso than any other house, because it is written from a Gryffindor perspective. So we have more opportunity to interpret the traits that make a true member of our house.

You could argue that Crabbe and Goyle are not very Slytherin, but they obviously possess some Slytherin traits, or the Sorting Hat would have put them elsewhere. True, they're not very bright, but intelligence is not a requirement of Slytherin; that's Ravenclaw's claim to fame. However, I think most Slytherin students tend to be brighter than average. Crabbe and Goyle happen to be average, or even below average. However, I'm going to say again that the books are written from a Gryffindor perspective. Harry's (understandable) prejudices against Slytherin tend to color the truth a bit. I don't think Crabbe and Goyle are the next Einstein and Hawking, but they're not complete morons either, in my opinion.

However, I don't see what is unfortunate in holding all applications to a high standard. Yes, we in Slytherin are selective, but in terms of canon, Salazar Slytherin wanted only the best students with the purest of blood in his house. He held his students to a high standard, and likewise, we hold our applications to a high standard.

If the situation were reversed, would you not want only the best for Gryffindor? Sure you would, it's house pride. Every house in HIH believes theirs is the best, with the best students, and the best personality traits. On the chance that someone is sorted into Slytherin and it's not the best match, it's not as though we drag them out in the rain and beat them. So, I fail to see the problem, to be honest.

As I've said before, the overall determinant for whether or not I vote Slytherin is the tone of the post. I tend to favor posts that are well-written, insightful while still slightly vague, very smooth, and very confident. It's hard to put forth that sort of image when the answers are 1 sentance and TyPeD LyKe DiS!11@u3021!

-Juliet, Slytherin

[chellemod.livejournal.com]

I usually have one significant reason for voting Muggle:

Contradictions.

If someone is constantly contradicting themselves, I tend to think (as I said in the Muggle vote I left at the entry being referred to) that it appears as if the person is just wearing the mask of the house they want, but every once in a while their real personality pops out to answer a question. I find it impossible and unfair to put someone in a house when I have to base my vote off of what seems to be two personalities.

There also seems to be a lot of questions as to why Slytherin members in general don't often vote Slytherin on apps. I can't speak for my House as a whole, but I can say the reason I don't usually vote Slytherin on apps due to what tends to work hand-in-hand with the whole "one trait" voting flaw. No house likes being judged by one singular trait, nor would it be fair (as I've said, yes I know I'm repeating myself) to base an applicant on one singular trait.

Just because everyone else sees someone being a potential Slytherin doesn't mean I agree with them. I usually disagree with votes for Slytherin, because they seem to be based on just one trait: "snarky."

I personally get quite tired of being called "snarky" as our (Slytherin's) main trait. Many of us do get tired of people being voted Slytherin just because they need an attitude adjustment or because they can be sarcastic and witty. I currently have close friends in every house here, and all of them are very sarcastic and witty. However, I'm the only Slytherin of the group.

I sometimes feel as if that is the only trait non-Slytherin members vote Slytherin on apps. "Snarky." It's not really Slytherin exclusiveness, though. It happens in all houses. The reason you hear about it more with Slytherin is because Slytherin members are almost always very out-spoken so we are usually well heard when it comes to our opinion or how little we are pleased by a situation when other houses aren't normally bothered by matters that we are.

Despite what some may believe, I (personally) don't vote something other than Slytherin to defy what everyone else's votes or to limit the applicants chances of being voted into Slytherin. I vote as I do because I'm allowed to vote differently than everyone else and I will absolutely not subdue my opinion because majority rules something differently. I vote as I do because I put much thought and logic into the consideration of the applicant.

And yes, I have voted Slytherin quite a few times. I don't think Slytherins are being anti-new Slytherin members. I know I'm always up for new members. The situation is not about not wanting new members, it is that we aren't just "snarky" and Snape/Malfoy fans. We have just as much meaning as everyone else does and want meaningful members of our community. To be completely honest, we don't want members that are voted into our house based off of their fandom, a mask they wear, or just "snarky" attitudes, when other traits might dictate them into another house more suited towards them.

At any rate, I hope that provided some insight.

I honestly believe getting up the house definitions will help sort out a lot of these problems. My advice: everyone hang tight until house definitions go up. If there is still a problem afterwards, we'll worry about it then.

[flimsy.livejournal.com]

I think the main reason for this is simply because there are so many people pushing for Slytherin.
Therefore the percentage of muggle votes among Slytherin-pushing applications is a lot higher than, say, the one among 'Puff-like apps.

There is also the fact, that Slytherins are of course elitizing.
We want those people in our House that will represent the House in a way we see fitting.
Many people try to get sorted into Slytherin not because they feel it's the House they belong to, but because it's 'cool'. Or something.
This might also be caused by the fact that there a lot of teenage girls who like Tom Felton (Draco, in the movies, for those who don't know) and therefore want to be a Slytherin.
Of course, we Slytherins don't want those people in our House.

Furthermore, one has to consider that Slytherins, real Slytherins, are rare.
I really don't want to say that Slytherins are better because of this fact - only that there aren't that many of us.

Another reason may be that Slytherins aren't very trusting. They are suspicious, they question things (a trait they share with Ravenclaw).
So, if someone seems too Slytherin, most of the time we don't assume they are Slytherins, but rather that they are pretending to be (also because, as already mentioned, many people do push).


And something else:

The questions in the application are questions about 'real life'.
Career, opinions, wishes etc.
And as are the facts that the votes are based on. I wouldn't give someone a Slytherin vote just because they are snarky.
Bravery alone doesn't make a Gryffindor.
Being intelligent is not a direct ticket to Ravenclaw.
Loyality and kindness aren't the only things that mark someone a Hufflepuff.
And so on - I think you get the point.

So, if people answers a question with ''There is no good and evil... there is only POWER, and those too weak to seek it'' (this is taken out of an app with some mugg-votes, I guess this is the one you meant?) you cannot call this a honest answer.
It's just quoting something. It's got nothing to do with how the questions should be answered.

People who seem to not be talking about themselves, about their own life, should get the Muggle-vote. They deserve it.

e.g.: There was once an application (in the old community) where someone was pushing so hard for Slytherin, noone could have possible not noticed it.
'Kill all the Muggles' and 'It's good to have slaves' are the things I remember.

Of course we hardly ever get apps like this one - but similar ones, and most of them are written by people who would like to be sorted into Slytherin.


Sometimes it seems to me the other Houses don't really care if the person really fits into Slytherin - as long as they appear Slytherin-ish, people vote 'Slytherin!'.

But we Slytherins are of course picky about potential Slytherins - it's OUR House after all.


--nika, Slytherin Prefect (who hopes this makes at least a little sense, even though her mind lacks a healthy dose of sleep)

[tangerinesidhe.livejournal.com]

Actually, at Hogwarts, Slytherins are not rare. They in fact make up a quarter of the school's population. It is the job of the sorting hat to quarter each incoming class, and that means that each house is as represented as every other.

--Destiny, Gryffindor.

[flimsy.livejournal.com]

a) I don't think the sorting hat sorts people into houses so that there will be an equal part of every house in the school in every year. It chooses the fitting house for each person.
b) This is not Hogwarts but the real world.

[tangerinesidhe.livejournal.com]

"Though I must fulfill my duty
And must quarter every year"

--Sorting Hat Song, OotP p. 206 American P.b. ed.

To quarter: verb.
To divide into four equal parts.

[flimsy.livejournal.com]

Re-read my comment. Carefully. Twice would be good.
This is not Hogwarts or the world JKR created.

Here, we try to put people into the Houses they belong to, and not to get an equal number of students in every House.

And there's no need to get all snappy at me.

[mydocuments.livejournal.com]

That's illogical. Take Ron Weasley for example, as his name comes near the end of the alphabet. Ron is most certainly a Gryffindor. He embodies all the traits of Gryffindor, both good and bad. But say, for a class of 100, the Sorting Hat had already sorted 25 Gryffindors. By your logic, Ron would have to go to another house, despite how Gryffindor he is, because Gryffindor has already received a quarter of the incoming class for the year. I highly doubt something like that would happen.

Rather, I feel that the Sorting Hat used the verb "to quarter" in a more general way, meaning to divide into 4 parts, without regards to equality. If the Sorting Hat did it any other way, it would not be effective. You would have people in houses that just don't fit, and I'm sure that's the last thing they want at Hogwarts.

[hxcpunkchick.livejournal.com]

Please check your dictionary again...
You'll see that it has much more than one definition for Quarter as a verb...
The Oxford English Dictionary (which is the definitive dictionary for every college class I've been in) specifically states that it also means to "divide by four; divide into quarters" and says nothing about being equal parts, in verb form.
If you think about it, it'd be rather silly too. It means that if your name was at the end of the alphabet, you'd be rather limited as to which house you could be in...which also means that you wouldn't necessarily be sorted by your dominant qualities.
"Sorry, I see you as a Ravenclaw, but they've reached their quota...HUFFLEPUFF instead!"

[mademoisellenon.livejournal.com]

Perhaps I am late in responding to this but I'd still like to get my two cents in ;)

While it may seem that I am ranting (and those from my House will know why ;) ), I still don't mean to offend any of the Houses. Apologies ahead of time!

I don't know when people decided that Slytherin was Teh!Elytist!House, OMG!!!11! and started doing their best to get into Slyth. Some applications are just blatantly obvious that they're pushing for our house: "Oh, I'm ambitious, I'm sarcastic, I'm this, I'm that." Ok, good for you but a poseur does not a true Slytherin make.

One of Slytherins' major traits is their subtlety, ability to do anything to get what they want. If you're hollering to the entire world and their dog about how sarcastic and ambitious you are that obviously will make all of the Slytherins crack up.

If someone just comes off as brave and loyal, we vote them as Gryffindor. Someone psychoanalyzes their app, they're obviously Ravenclaw. Hufflepuffs are those sweet people whom Slytherin likes to bite (*grin* just kidding!). Anyway, hope that makes sense. When we vote, we do our best to be fair but when an application just screams to be accepted as a Slytherin, that's just not going to happen.

Yes, Slytherin House can be very elitist and very picky. But we know what traits we look for and we take those students that we feel have them. End of story!

(The last post about what character traits suit which House is perfect. Hopefully, that will clear up all of the misunderstandings. Doesn't mean that Slytherin will stop voting posers as Muggles though ;)

*gets off her soapbox*

Anaïs ~ Slytherin

[furiosity.livejournal.com]

If the Slytherins are voting Muggle on a person, is it fair to put them in Slytherin because members of other houses outnumber us 3 to 1?

I personally don't think someone should go into Slytherin just because all the other houses voted Slytherin while all the Slytherins said Muggle. We're good at recognising our own, members of other houses usually aren't.

No offense to anyone in other houses, and of course it's only my opinion. I am, after all, in Slytherin, and I'm not happy about posers being happily put into my house by others just because their app had a smidgen of sarcasm or proclaimed plans of world domination. *snerk*

furiosity // Slytherin

[livesinthewalls.livejournal.com]

I totally agree. I suppose it would be too much to load on the voting manager's shoulders, but...

Wouldn't it be great if there were some sort of scaled-points system? Wait, no, I just tried to work it out in my head and my brain exploded...nevermind...

Dagnabbit.

But still, it seems a little odd that all Ravenclaws would muggle an application, yet everyone else forces this person on them anyway. Shouldn't the ravenclaws know best? Eh? Eh?

Catherine The Confused of Slytherlishositude

[arienettelondon.livejournal.com]

your icon: must be sexed
your use of the word 'dagnabbit': means you must be sexed.
I actually giggled when I read that. I'm not cool...or maybe I'm just sleep deprived. I *really* need to stop talking now...

exhausted-sick-post-surgery-in-need-of-rest-Pixie//Slytherin