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[nikkied-05.livejournal.com]

If this isn't ok, please delete!

I'm a huge History buff, so this college semester I am taking a class about the Holocaust. Yesterday we're in this huge discussion about how Hitler wanted everyone to be "pure-blood" and this guy in the back pop's up and says how it reminded him of the Slytherin's in the Harry Potter series and how they're always talking about the pure-bloods being the superior wizards. I thought this was very interesting (since I'm a Harry Potter buff as well) and took it to the "next level". I now have a whole "Theory" type connection thing going on...I think it's kind of neat (but freaky too) and I thought I'd share..





NOTE: This is in now way stating the Slytherin's are bad people, Hufflepuffs weak, or Gryffindor's and Ravenclaw's the "superior houses". This is just a theory. If for some uncanny reason it causes drama, I'll delete it!



Hitler was the leader of the Nazi's and main cause for WWII right? but in the HP world he'd be Voldermort. Then, you've got his minions aka Nazi party and death eaters

Hitler was big on getting the Youth involved...that's were Slythrin comes in....they're the "youth Nazi's"

Nazi's picked on Jews (mainly, there were others) Jew have been harassed through out time, Hufflepuffs always seem to be the one's who are picked on. Therefore I've placed Hufflepuffs as the target of the prosecution.

Then you've got the Ravenclaws, who are like Europe (the smart people always seem to come from Europe) They're trying to fight off the Slytherins but arn't that great at it.

Then, towards the end of the war, Voldermort picks on little Harry (Japanese bomb Pearl Harbor) and after a while the USA (Gryffindor) is angry and decide to join in the war. We all know that the Allies won (saved the Jews) and Hitler dies. But we don't 'know how the Series will end. For now I'll just assume that Gryffindor and Ravencalw win (Saving Hufflepuff) and Voldermort dies.

I just thought this was kind of freaky and interesting and thought I'd share!

Comments

[maegwin-of-hern.livejournal.com]

It is an interesting theory, insofar as JKR already said that the distinction between purebloods and "mudbloods" in her books reflected racism, and the similarity to Hitler's arianism / anti-semitism seem obvious. However, I cannot agree with the distinction of the houses. For one, JKR also said that not all Slytherins are like Malfoy and his gang, who are furthermore seen only through Harry's eyes. And not all Death Eaters came from Slytherin.
And with the Hufflepuffs...I don't have a quote by JKR at hand right now, but in this theory, Puffs seem to be like some sort of pushovers. Which we - the Hufflepuff house here at HiH - do not think we are. I don't know who said it first, but it's very likely that some of Voldemort's Death Eaters are Hufflepuffs - their undying loyalty makes them extremely dangerous, don't you think?

Nicola
Hufflepuff

[nikkied-05.livejournal.com]

I completly agree with the loyalty thing. However, I was just trying to make connections. I tend to become very excited about this kind of stuff. No clue why. My "theory" in NO WAY reflects how I personally view the houses or anything.

[maegwin-of-hern.livejournal.com]

I know. I just wanted to get a discussion going ;)

[delbor.livejournal.com]

Uh... by the time US joined the war, it's practically finished. It's true that the nuclear bombs signalled the end of the war but it was merely an experimentation to see how much damage they could inflict and the Japanese seemed to be the perfect target at the time.

Personally, as a Gryffindor, I'm kind of offended to be associated with that. =\ I know it's just a theory and whatnot, but still. Other than that I thought it was an interesting observation.

Amanda//Gryffindor

[beccastareyes]

The way I learned it, the decision to use nuclear weaponry was a tactical one -- an invasion of Japan would kill a lot of US soldiers, and the Japanese were giving no sign they were open for ending the war without one.

Though I would like to take issue with the OP's assertion that the US was minding its own business when... wham! Pearl Harbor! The US was pretty much helping the Allies out economcially before it formally entered the war, annoying the snot out of the Axis powers. So the Japanese decided to cripple the US's Pacific fleet in response, which marked them as the agressors in the US public's eye, allowing the government to declare war on the Axis powers wihtout a public bashlash. Heinlein in The Moon is a Harsh Mistress called the Pearl Harbor strategy 'acting as annoying as possible to your enemies while giving them the idea it would be very easy to smack you.' Very good at getting the neutral powers and your own citizens on your side, as we generally see the defender as the 'good guy'.

-- Rebecca, Hufflepuff

[lariren-shadow.livejournal.com]

Interesting, I'm a big history buff too. Anyway, hwo do you also kind of account for the Jews who fought back? I mean, that leads to the whole Hufflepuffs not being the weak house, so you could put that in there. It also is taken more with the Slytherins, if you were in the Youth, then you made good connections and your "real friends". So there is more to that one too.

The Gryffindors could be anyone, like the Ravenclaws, in Europe. Since the US didn't enter till late, but it seems that in the books the Gryffindors were in this all the time. Well, that is just my two cents.

~Jenny, Gryffindor

[nikkied-05.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I thought about how the Gryff's have been in it from the beginning. I just needed to put them some where! Didn't want to leave anyone out!

[lariren-shadow.livejournal.com]

Of course, maybe there was a mix of the Ravenclaws and Gryffindors in Europe and America(seeing as the whole immigration thing). Different take I guess.

[imafairbeater.livejournal.com]

:) I love history. (I'm a major) And this really is quite interesting. I don't really have any positive feedback to give you, but I quite like the topic :)

--Anna//Hufflepuff

[rosacrouch.livejournal.com]

Well. The only comparison I see is the hypocrisy of Hitler and Voldemort. They both wanted pureblooded people, when they weren'd pureblooded/ Arian themselves.
This comparison has been drawn a lot of times of course, but I think the other ones you've added are - off.

I don't think Hufflepuffs were harassed by Slytherins, Mudbloods were. And I don't think Ravenclaws would be stupid enough to fight Slytherins. I see them as closest and elistist towards Slytherins.

And if I were a Gryffindor, I'd be very cross at being compared to the lazy minding-their-own-business and terrible atomic bomb attitudes of the USA.

Plus, Voldemort/ Hitler may die. But the whole movement behind them not.

And Hitler wanted the youth involved purely to dominate them and their families trough raising them with his beliefs. It was not so much about 'involvement' as it was about domination.

[flyingfire.livejournal.com]

i love that icon.

/end random comment.

[tildiebots.livejournal.com]

Last quarter in my British Lit class we read PofA and discussed the mudblood/pure-blood thing to a great extent. We also talked about the issues of racism in the book, and it was really interesting until the Prof. started saying that Arthur Weasley was an elitist and semi-racist...then I stopped paying attention. :)

[giove-dea.livejournal.com]

So you stopped paying attention because you don't think that Arthur is an elitist racist...even though its quite true? Or am I reading into it too much?

Arthur reminds me a lot of my family...all traditional Italians. They're nice and sweet and tell you what you want to hear to your face...but as soon as you're out of range they talk crap. Isn't that what Arthur does with the Malfoys? He goes out of his way so there isn't a fight, and almost seems to suck up to them...but then bad mouths them as soon as they are out of hearing range. He feels stronger then them when he's among his own peers and people that think his way, yet he goes crawling back to being a coward when he's out numbered.

[pyrafire.livejournal.com]

Wow, I didn't think of it that way, but I'm guessing that that isn't what the professor meant. I'm more thinking of it along the lines of his attitudes toward Muggles. He looks at them like entertaining little animals. Take some of the comments he makes about Muggles and imagine if someone today made similar comments about people of another race. I actually feel the same way about him and always have. He reminds me a lot of my grandfather and how he feels about black people. Basically it's an attitude of, "Oh, there's nothing wrong with black people/Muggles. Look how resourceful they are! You've gotta give them credit." It's like when white people call Colin Powell "well-spoken." He's an educated man, for chrissakes. If he were white, no one would think anything of it, but because he's black, it's as if he's somehow exceeding expectations. Anyway, I think that's probably where the prof was going with his statement.

[giove-dea.livejournal.com]

Haha, and I didn't think of it in that way...but thats true as well. But then again most of the wizarding world says similar things about Muggles. Stuff like "Oh look how well they can cope without magic." It reminds me very much of when you're talking to a child that's just done something very adult like. "Oh look how cute. He's trying to be a big boy."

I makes you think way too much about the human psych. XD

[tildiebots.livejournal.com]

You're 100% right about what the Prof was talking about. And I do agree that Arthur demeans the muggle race with a lot of his comments, but to me it's always been much more of an ignorance that he has and therefore kind of a joke with the reader. In the wizarding world, they would all be laughing with Arthur at us silly muggles, but we are all really laughing at how silly he is because he doesn't get what our stuff is. It kind of opens your eyes to how foreign some parts of our culture might be to other parts of the world and vice versa. I do see what you're saying though, I had just always thought of it differently when I read the books. :)

[thespyglass.livejournal.com]

That's always how I took it as well :)

[tildiebots.livejournal.com]

:\ I definitely wouldn't go so far as to say he was an "elitist racist". I see what you're saying, but I don't think he goes crawling back to being a coward when he's outnumbered. Many times when he's in the ministry, he would get fired or greatly reprimanded if he spoke to Lucius the way he would like to. I wouldn't call this cowardice, but more...control... Something he often warns Harry to pay attention to, yet we all know how well that goes. :)

[karinablack.livejournal.com]

It draws some very interesting parallels :)

I've been curious about other "houses" in other schools. Perhaps divisions along different lines, based in intellect or merit instead of personality. :)

A EUROPEAN Jew's take on the subject

[tigersalamander.livejournal.com]

I am a French Jew, so obviously the Holocaust hits very close to home. Interestingly enough, my Rabbi gave a talk relating HP to the Holocaust in a similar way. I think it's fascinating and I'm glad you posted that. And Jews have been a target (I just thought I would give a brief explanation), throughout time because wherever they go, "they find a way", perhaps the most resilient of all ethnic groups. For example, in POland, in the 1500s, Jews were called in to help sort out vey poor finances (something Jews have been traditionally very good at, look at the World Bank). They got the Polish economy up but also did very well themselves causing imense fury amongst the Poles (many of whom remained poor). I can liken my ethnic group to Hermione-too smart, too outspoken, and maybe to successfull at times, for their own good. (Not to be too chauvinistic about it.) Anyways, I liked this post a lot. This is touchy topic, but if a Jew whose family was veritably anhilated can talk about it, then I think we all should be able to. It's in silence that tragedies such as this fall through the cracks of history.

Nina, Gryff

Re: A EUROPEAN Jew's take on the subject

[nikkied-05.livejournal.com]

I've always felt that this is one of those topics that NEEDS to be talked about. Here in the USA History is not talked about nearly as musch as in Europe. In fact, when I traveled to France, the French knew more about my own History then I did! It's kind of sad, really, how little Americans know.

Re: A EUROPEAN Jew's take on the subject

[lariren-shadow.livejournal.com]

yeah, I know what you mean. But then again, I have been in AP history classes for the past few years, I just am not taking history this semester. Anyway, it is horrible how much we don't know. *says the hypocrite who hates American history with a passion*

Re: A EUROPEAN Jew's take on the subject

[nikkied-05.livejournal.com]

HA! I too HATE American History! I'm planning on Majoring in European Histroy. I also took AP History in High School. The Europeans STILL know more then me...my goal, learn more than them! :D

Just think, the world may be a more peaceful place if the States knew more about their own History

Re: A EUROPEAN Jew's take on the subject

[lariren-shadow.livejournal.com]

Yeah, maybe. I am majoring in history and secondary education. And adding a minor in English but that is besides the point. I am so glad that I took AP US history, I placed out in college now. So happy.

Re: A EUROPEAN Jew's take on the subject

[lariren-shadow.livejournal.com]

I never heard that before, and I wish my Rabbi would talk about that. It was be a good topic. When I go home, I might want to talk to him about it. I always knew about how the Jews were influencial in the Spanish ecomony until they were kicked out in 1492, but never about that one.

~Jenny, Gryffindor

Re: A EUROPEAN Jew's take on the subject

[tigersalamander.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think being European and Jewish, you come to know your own history very well. To be able to avoid/deal with anti-semitism, you have to understand the roots of it and the stereotypes behind it (I hope my english here made sense).

Re: A EUROPEAN Jew's take on the subject

[lariren-shadow.livejournal.com]

Entirly, and I have been learning the same thing in religious school since fifth grade. I was really pissed off when I was working with the fifth graders this year and one of them asked "Why do we have to learn about the Holocaust?" I really wanted to say something but I kept my mouth shut and told her to pay attention.

[chorusgirl.livejournal.com]

JKR has stated in interviews that the system of 'dirty blood' used in her books and during the Holocaust were the same, however I don't really agree with this theory.

[coaltrain-613.livejournal.com]

i totally dont know how i missed this...but i give you credit very good points but in whole i dont agree with this theory as a whole...you just can't categorize all people from a house as another group like slytherins= nazi's and so on...and from what i've seen from the books slytherins pick more on gryffindors than puffs...but i good interesting thing to read.

[tigersalamander.livejournal.com]

yeah, i agree, but there are some parallels, not an attempt to make HP a history series.