September Debate!

[debate-geeks.livejournal.com]

Edit: Debate has ended!



1. This is all in fun. Feel free to take it seriously, but keep yourself grounded.

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Slug Club; Worthy Addition or Unneeded Nuisance?

The Slug Club, lead by professor Slughorn. Is it good? Is it bad? The members are offered special opportunities while most of them are only in it because they have important family members. Does this give them an unfair advantage? And is it right for a teacher to stimulate this kind of elitist behavior?


The sides

Worthy Addition - Slytherin and Ravenclaw
Unneeded Nuisance - Gryffindor and Hufflepuff

Debate ends tomorrow at 2PM EST, so you have 24 hours.

Have fun!
♥ Marije

Comments

[jedilora.livejournal.com]

The Slug Club is a wonderful addition to the Hogwarts life. After all, while some members may be in it due to relations, more are in by their own merits. For example, Hermione is one of the leading members due to being the brightest witch of her age. Harry is in it partly due to his mother, but more due to his actions in the war against He Who Must Not Be Named. Voldemort himself was not in it due to family, but rather his own actions. While some may point to this as a negative, one cannot deny that it helped him in his future ambitions.

~Rachel, Ravenclaw

[ciorstaidh.livejournal.com]

In such troubled times as those in Half-Blood Prince, the Slug Club is exactly the sort of tool that divides students. Regardless of the reasons some students are invited and others are not, in order to win the fight against the Dark, the side of Light needs unity. Hermione might be the brightest witch of the year - but separate her from other students of an evening and no one can see her working in the common room, which guilt-trips them into doing their own homework (a bit convoluted, but I'm sure you get my meaning). They won't learn as much, and their grades suffer - this is proved by comprehensive schooling systems across the world, that brighter pupils push less-able students to their level, rather than the less able students pulling brighter ones down.

Elitism is never a good plan - one must never underestimate one's enemy.

[bartendersgirl.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure it's an "unneeded nuisance" per se, but it does give certian students in Hogwarts an unfair advantage just because of who their parents are. Sure, Slughorn had his favorites when he previously taught at Hogwarts, ie: Lilly Evans, but that really give him the excuse or right to pass that favoritism to her son?

The point of having clubs and classes is to get housepoints and grades based on the students abilities in the certain subject. This club however, will give students a passing grade and housepoints in the Potions Class, even if they are horrible in the class. They will pass the class not on their abilities, but because of favorism by the teacher.

Nikkie//Gryffindor

[jedilora.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't say he picked Harry just for being Lily's son. I'm pretty sure Harry would have wound up in the Slug Cluf by his own virtues as well.

The Club itself does not confer good grades. The links and help gained by being in the club help achieve higher than the rest of the school. That's not any different than having a study group that's favored by the librarian. It gains you resources, but not actual better grades.

~Rachel, Ravenclaw

[glitterbubbles.livejournal.com]

students in the Slug Club rarely are there on their own merit, and if they are it's only when Slughorn happens to see something impressive in passing, as with Ginny. most of them have done nothing to get there besides having relatives that were liked by Slughorn and/or famous. it is in bad taste and really actually immoral for an instructor to show such blatant favouritism, and at a time when people need to band together this is just one more thing to drive a wedge between students. students not in the Slug Club are likely to be jealous of the opportunities offered those who are members, and students in the club may feel they are better than people who aren't. the Slug Club is an unneeded nuisance that threatens the already shaky unity of the school!

Jules::Hufflepuff

[alonelymiracle.livejournal.com]

People do get in on their own merit. Technically, they have to show something impressive to get in right, so they did do it themselves. Only a few are in there because of relatives or parents. Hermione and Ginny and Harry are in there for their talents, along with others.

And think, by seperating these students, and making others want to join, won't that make them strive to work harder to do something favorable in Slughorn's eye? So, therefore, making them better students. I think this helps because now students are working harder, and isn't that what everyone wants after all?

Position: For the Slug Club

[angeleyesjg24.livejournal.com]

While I can understand opposition to such a group, I believe that it's merits outweigh its problems. The club is not just for the rich and famous, but is also for the intelligent, the gifted, and the talented. I know many amongst us in Ravenclaw once belonged to (or still belong to) an honors group that is designed to recognize special achievements. Being recognized for being outstanding shouldn't be seen as a negative, but an encouragement and a positive. Yes, they are favored, but so are all exclusive groups, whatever merit they may be based on.

So, no, I don't think the Slug Club is a negative thing, but a positive recognition of those with unique skills and abilities.

Anna M // Ravenclaw

Re: Position: For the Slug Club

[mysticblueside.livejournal.com]

However, it can also be said that by having Professor-elected Prefects that the quota of 'recognition' is already being fulfilled. By exclusively leaving out some Prefects, yet allowing other non-Prefects in due to heritage, the club is undermining a respect system for virtually no reason. If it were being used to honor those worthy of Prefectcy that were 'overlooked', then it may have merit. Unfortunately, this is not the case. Why not leave the 'outstanding recognition' to more than one Professor, that is less biased? Doing so would help encourage, rather than discourage, since the negative aspects would be much less evident.

~Claire K.//Hufflepuff~

[mme-antoinette.livejournal.com]

In regards to favoritism and elitism, it could easily be argued that some teachers can be guilty of this anyway, Slug Club or not. After all, if a teacher taught a certain student, then years later teaches that student's child, they are undoubtedly going to compare the child to their parent. Whether this is fair or not is beside the point. And if the parent of a student is wealthy or well-known, the teacher is bound to be aware of this fact anyway, and often (consciously or not) judges the student based on these known facts of the student's life. A formal Slug Club does not necessarily breed elitism or favoritism. Those flourish quite well on their own, especially in a private school within a small community (i.e. the British Wizarding world).

Students born to wealthy or prominent families already often have many social advantages. However, it's clear that family does not always determine fate-- Draco is not a member of the Slug Club despite his wealth and prominent family, whereas Hermione is a member based on her own merits, despite being born to an average Muggle family. The Slug Club is just networking.

The ills that the Slug Club is accused of fostering (favoritism, elitism, etc.) exist quite well on their own, and are not caused by the Slug Club. (I would also argue that the Slug Club does little to nothing to make these pre-existing social ills any worse.) By the same token, the benefits of the Slug Club are often negligible. It is merely social networking in the form of a school club, nothing more.

~~Mme. Antoinette, Ravenclaw~~

[gypsybeech.livejournal.com]

Slug Club as "social networking" is a hard leap for me to make. Clubs for true social networking would be open to all students. The Slug Club (Ack! That's hard to type Slub Clug, Clug Slug, BLAH) does make it even easy for favoritism and preduice to exist. Like you say, those things are present anyway, and while I agree with you absolutely on that, I have to disagree that the Slug Club doesn't make the pre-existing ills any worse.

The jealousy that the students feel when their peers are picked to go to parties when they are not breeds discontent. It could even lead to students starting their own private factions, and not allowing members of the Slug Club to join those. The Slug Club sets a divide between students, just as any other club that doesn't have open membership does.

-Gyp, Gryffindor-

[maegwin-of-hern.livejournal.com]

Generally, I don't mind clubs as such. It's a wonderful way of meeting people with similar or same interests. However, the Slug Club is somewhat different. The students are not there because they have similar interests or because they have friends there. That might be a happy coincidence, as in the case of Harry and Hermione, but it's not the reason for meeting there in the first place.
Furthermore, the club promotes elitism, and also the wrong kind of elitism. It's only in part about the students' own merits that they can enter this club. Mostly, however, it is their connections. If a society is so really in need to have some elites "up there", then at least its members should have gotten there by their own doing, by working hard and being ambitious enough to get there. But not because they know someone or are related to someone who might be of convenience to themselves or to someone else, e.g. Professor Slughorn.

Nicola
Hufflepuff

[amaelgreenleaf.livejournal.com]

The Slug Club is not “unneeded”. I say it is needed only in the aspects that it is clubs like these of which prioritize certain people & put them on pedestals that he/she did not righteously earn, give others a chance to acknowledge the fact that the “Slug Club” is an actual and ongoing reality. Lest to say it is a nuisance because first off, it is a teacher who is initiating this sort of behavior. This is something one can expect from a group of “elitist” clique students. In one word, clubs formed in this manner is IMMATURE. I guess he’s being a “teacher” in a different and indirect aspect, but at the same time, a teacher is supposed to be encouraging in a positive manner to all students, not just to a privileged sum. Every person is gifted in a specific area. Some in more areas than others. Those in the Slughorn Club are just lucky enough to have these “notable” people and tasks seen/witnessed and or documented.

Granted a teacher is not meant to be perfect, and don’t comment and tell me that that is my own opinion of a good teacher. In Slughorn’s aspect, he’s being paid to be a professor. And I don’t think his creation of the Slug Club was in his job description. Note: I am not saying he’s a bad man. Just that his initiating this club should be frowned upon because there is no actual “skill” involved and or learned in a club. A club is a place where people can gather to have fun and share a common interest. What fun is there for Harry Potter to try to remember what he could of his mother? What fun would there be for Ginny to realize that if she’s not ‘cut’ out after all, and because there is no family name to save her, she could just be dismissed?

[cherrysk8fan.livejournal.com]

I rather view the Slug Club as almost the beginnings of an alumni foundation or association...yes, a selective one, but an association all the same. For those who are selected, it is a great tool to form future connections that may become extremely beneficial in opening up doors for their career paths.

Is it overly selective? Probably. But at the same time, that's life. In our "real world," sometimes (often, actually) who you know is more important than what you know. As a journalism student, this is made quite clear in my education: if your father happens to know the editor of a newspaper and can score you an interview, great. However, if you get in with one of the top professors by working hard and being impressive in class, his or her contacts and/or letters of recommendation can be an "in" to the industry. The Slug Club is really quite similar to this: students not only get in based on who their families are (like Blaise), but they can also work hard and be impressive (like Hermione, who is Muggleborn, but is also the best of the class and, as such, impressed Slughorn).

To me, if one eliminates the family aspect to some extent, the Slug Club seems vaguely like National Honor Society at my high school or honors fraternities in college. They don't necessarily have open membership either; they seek out those they feel are qualified and invite them to their events, meetings and to use their contacts. Elitist, maybe, but unnecessary, no.

Tired and babbling on.

[timydamonkey.livejournal.com]

This whole thing depends on how you look at it.

In the sense of the fact that it is a clue in a book, it adds depth and development to certain characters; indeed, it explains a lot about Slughorn hmself.

Indeed, a majority of Slughorn's membership are from people who have extraordinary relatives -- this is always pointed towards this being the main reason to the Slug Club's existence and membership, but just maybe the members in this category are quite special themselves. And let's not forget, for example, Hermione, who isn't there for the talents of her relatives regardless of anything important they may have done - she is there because of her extraordinary talents in most subjects. She is there because she has a lot of potential. (I'll come back to that.)

Similarily, Ginny being in the club - she is from a family with six older brothers to live up to, the only girl, in a poor family. She is in there because of her talents - in this case, the bat bogey hex if I remember correctly - not because of her parentage. Not, for instance, because she's a pureblood.

As for the club being so exclusive, well, that's the way things go. I made a note above that Ginny and the rest of the club were not chosen for being purebloods (indeed, many aren't). In society, people are grouped off exclusively. In wizarding society, there are the Death Eaters - (mostly) pureblooded, wishing to get rid of halfbloods and 'mudbloods' to make their world respectable. THAT is an exclusive 'club'. Basically, these happen in not just our society, but wizarding society. Slughorn, though perhaps not intentionally, is preparing them for reality - they all WILL be grouped off in society, however unaware of it they are. And indeed, they may be grouped off because of their blood or their relatives talents or their own talents, but people would still be grouped off, as would the people not in the Slug Club. It is still a taste of reality, regardless of how the students themselves find the idea.

Back to the 'potential' part. As far as I see it, this is the exclusiveness of Slughorn's group. All of the members have rather amazing potential, whether or not Slughorn deduced this from their relatives' talents or not. None of them (not even Hermione, in my opinion) are reaching their maximum potential - and if they're interested, Slughorn could easily teach them that. People have different levels of potential - there's no use trying to teach someone who has achieved their maximum potential (however consciously or unconsciously that is) any more, as it just won't work.

As far as I can remember, the Slug Club isn't gone into in great detail in the books. Yes, it seems they do a lot of sitting around just talking, but in some cases that can be really interesting people.

As for the division argument, the Slug Club is also unifying houses - albeit just certain people in them - there are people in every house in the Slug Club. It is a place where people could happily getting along well with people in other houses - regardless of whether or not the club ACHIEVED that, I'm looking at the idea of the club in general.

While it's never really good for a teacher to show favouritism, and perhaps Slughorn had an unhealthy dose of this, that doesn't mean he didn't look out for lots of potential. Hermione, for example, was not in the Slug Club until she outshone herself in Potions, and had proved to Slughorn she was special. This shows that he wasn't JUST concentrating on the people he had picked out and he didn't just expect them to answer questions and give just them points, he asked other people - in that case, Hermione. I think it's a sfe bet, with that, to say he wasn't completely closed-minded and did keep a close eye out on people's potential, and by doing that and paying so much attention, he wasn't having his eyes just on those in the Slug Club, opening a blind eye to the others, and generally showing favouritism explicitly.

(Cont. in a minute. Long comment.)

Re: Tired and babbling on.

[timydamonkey.livejournal.com]

Unfair advantage? No, not really. Sometimes, when favouritism does occur (I'm not saying it doesn't, I'm saying it's not explicit) it is much harder for those who are the 'favourites'. Slughorn would always expect more from those he considered his favourites, making it much harder for them in some aspects, evening out the playing field a bit. So no, I don't consider his favouritism giving anyone an unfair advantage; really, to me it seems more like a disadvantage to those referred to as his favourites...

-Chloe, Ravenclaw.

Unneeded Nuisance - By far.

[xxreed.livejournal.com]

The Slug Club by far is an unneeded nuisance! Yes; All teachers have their favorites but assembling a club goes a little too far. After all, Look what information Slughorn, through his society, has given Voldemort! Terrible, a shame. Though-- It could be somewhat going well-off. Assuming that these students are the best, and they would be wise to work hard if they wanted a certain place in the Ministry. I find it a nuisance, yet a project to drive to students to work hard. Its quite undecided for me. =)

Reed- Hufflepuff

Re: Unneeded Nuisance - By far.

[cherrysk8fan.livejournal.com]

But really, wouldn't Slughorn have given that information to Riddle anyway, society or no? All teachers will have their favorites--as much as we all hate to admit it, we also know it's true--and it was clear that Tom Riddle was an outstanding student, one that few professors viewed as potential dangerous and most viewed as a young wizard on the fast track to "stardom," possibly in the Ministry. Hindsight is always 20/20, and yes, looking back, it's quite clear that Slughorn should not have divulged what he knew about Horcruxes. However, at the time, Slughorn was conveying "interesting background" for an exceptional student whom he thought was merely curious about a term that isn't taught in school. That is the kind of intellectual curiousity most teachers dream their students will possess.

In simplified terms? The Slug Club can't be held responsible for Riddle's knowledge of Horcruxes (and the consequences of that knowledge). A student of his caliber would have likely been a professor's favorite anyway and would have had little more trouble gaining that information without the club than he did with it.

Re: NO!!

[loved-gamgee.livejournal.com]

*psst* sign your posts with your house!

[beautyfrompain.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't necessarily call it an uneeded nuisance... for nuisance might be a bit harsh. But I would definitely say the Slug Club isn't essential to the school and a club that can be rather unfair and prejudiced to Hogwarts students. If there is to be a "special club" for certain students, than it should be based on their merit; not based on their ancestry.

And its not as if the Slug Club is an actual club. What do they do? What do they discuss? Most of the kids probably aren't there on their own free will - too intimidated by Slughorn to refuse his offer. And most of them don't even have friends in the club; rather, they have enemies. Sure, Slughorn might have a few students there because of their natural ability with magic, but the others are solely their because they have "connections" in their family that Slughorn would like to have and use these kids to his advantage.

If the Slug Club was to be a real club, it should have structure to it. If it wasn't based on who you knew, or who you were related to, but rather based on how well you do in school and how you treat other people, than I think it would be a very positive way to motivate kids to work more on their schooling and character, rather then fooling around.

::tori::hufflepuff::

[tangerinesidhe.livejournal.com]

The Slug Club reminds me in many ways of the Skull and Bones in the muggle world. These sorts of groups tend to focus more on who your family is than what your personal merits are. Professor Slughorn selects students and offers them special opportunities based on what they will be able to do for him. This sort of arrangement certainly excludes those students who may be deserving of special opportunities based on merit, ability, and skill, but who do not have any important family or friend connections. No one should be guaranteed special treatment simply because of who they happen to be related to. The Slug Club is an unneeded nuisance at Hogwarts. It provides no educational value, nor does it improve the quality of life at Hogwarts as a whole.

(tangerinesidhe//gryffindor)

[this-here-girl.livejournal.com]

One thing that has to be remembered is that while he does pick students that will in some later date benefit him in some way, it isn't always based solely on family connects. There are students in his group that are there because of their potential to be great.

Furthermore, your right, no one should be given preferential treatment by teachers, but that doesn't change that fact that it happens from the Headmaster on down. Look at how teachers acted in the last book during the Quiddith finals or how Dumbledor treated Harry, preferential treatment is all over the place. The only difference between what he's doing and what other teachers do is that he doesn't try and hide it.

Patrice; Slyhterin.

[beanpop.livejournal.com]

The Slug Club sort of reminds me of the 'popular crowd' in high school. Every high school has them, but they definately don't need them. Why? Because it makes everyone else feel horrible and no good enough. There's no reason for there to be a Slug Club because all it does is make the member's egos bigger and the non-members feel unappreciated. If you want to make certain people known around a school, it should be for reasons such as intelligence or good deeds, not because one of their long lost relatives decided to do something that made them popular.

[karinablack.livejournal.com]

I can MORE than sympathize with your feelings towards the "popular kids" in high school...The entire POINT of that association was to make the others feel bad. It was a mutual admiration society based not on merit but of social standing designed to keep THEM at the top, and the other students kneeling at their feet.

However, this does not hold true for chapters of Mensa, Deca, the Chess club, the Honor Society, or any other special interest club. Why, then, should it hold true for the Slug Club? It's simply a networking club of specially gifted students. Those in the club don't try to make anyone else feel bad, they don't rub it in their faces... In fact they seem to be embarassed by the attention. I've noticed that members try not to even discuss it with outsiders for fear of hurting their feelings.

Karina ~ Ravenclaw

[loved-gamgee.livejournal.com]

we've got to remember what the Sorting Hat has said two years in a row now: unite or fall together. how can Slughorn playing favorites for his own gain help the students to not hold grudges. look at Ron and Malfoy. both feel completly shunned because they are left out of this group. Ron has always felt like he would never live up to his brothers and now he has to dwell in Harry, Hermione and his sister Ginny's shadow. i can't see this helping the feeling of unity.

doesn't the wizarding world have more to worry about (inside and outside Hogwarts) without having to watch the "best and the brightest" be carried to the top? remember, it was Slughorn's favortisum of Lord Voldemort that helped him, as unintentional as it was, to learning about Horcruxes and enabling Voldemort to even come back! you think Slughorn would have learned from that.

prehaps Professor Slughorn is an excellent Postions Master, but his Slug Club is just plain slimy.

[kaleidoruby.livejournal.com]

The Slug Club is a totally unnecessary addition to Howarts. In these times when the school needs to be united more than ever, there should not be a club for a teacher's favourite students. If Slughorn wishes to network and set up valuable contacts within the wizarding world, it should be done without intruding and making other students feel that that their skills are less than important.

As loved_gamgee said, Slughorn playing favourites caused Voldemort to learn everything he wanted to know about Horcruxes. He should not be trying to cause anything more to happen. While the best and brightest students do deserve some praise, I'm sure that they don't need to be singled out like this. All it does is cause the rest of the students to resent them.

Carrie - Gryffindor

For Slug Club-

[karinablack.livejournal.com]

I simply cannot say anything more than has already been well-said by my HouseMates, so I shall simply reiterate and expound. While I do find the position assigned a difficult one to defend, I feel it isn't entirely impossible.

1) The Slug club is NOT , in fact, designed by nature or intent to favor students due to any particulars in their bloodline. They are students who have shown themselves to be gifted in a particular aptitude or another. jedilora made the best case for this here in her comment.

2) Members of the Slug Club are NOT necessarily afforded any greater opportunity than could be had by any other enterprising or outgoing student at Hogwarts. The only "exclusive opportunity" afforded is that of networking. I hardly see how this qualifies as an unfair advantage. *bow angeleyesjg24

3) Elitist behavior? I think Professor Slughorn should be commended for taking an active interest in the lives and social activities of Hogwarts students. Other teachers too interested in appearances of fairness and of not having favorites could take a page from his book. The youth of today are the leaders of tomorrow. This is an opportunity to help mold, shape, and direct the youngsters into fully-fledged and contributing members of society.
How great would it be if, say, the Honorable Professor McGonagall were to start a club for those particularly gifted in Transfiguration, or for those wishing to become AniMagus?! To help guide them in its proper use above and beyond the simple descriptions and illustrations found in normal classroom routine.
How great would it be if Professor Snape were to tutor those gifted in potions into the great potionmakers of tomorrow?
Or for Professor Sprout to take those gifted at Herbology under her tutledge? I could go on and on, but the core of this is simply staff taking a more active interest in their students.

4) With another nod to the wit of angeleyesjg24 :), that the club is NOT exclusive and the membership is fairly open, should be viewed as an encouragement to students to do their best and excel, that they might become members sometime in the future.

5) With any club with exclusive or by-invite-only memberships, hard feelings are going to occur with no fault whatsoever of members or instigator/organizer. Take Quiddich, for example. Those who did not make the Quiddich team after try-outs may feel that they were biased in much the same way that a handful may feel that the Slug Club is biased. It's jealousy, simply, and instead of pouring their energies into excelling at studies and, one could argue, deserving an invitation, they choose instead to be butt-hurt (vern.) and petty. It's sad, really, that such an accusation should even ever have been made. :(

Karina Black ~ Ravenclaw

Let's put some salt on it...

[amaelgreenleaf.livejournal.com]

With Quidditch, technically you are supposed to try-out. You are accepted within the quality of your talent & your dedication to the sport and team. Like soccer and baseball, you compete to be the best. You train. You work. You find time to do [insert sport here] because a) you love it and b) you're good at it. Not getting a team hurts yes, but should that stop you from flying? It technically shouldn't.

What technically then is the point of the Slug Club meetings? Do you compete? What do you compete for? Please not the affection of Slughorn. =P What are the requirements? Should you be rich? Do you have to be smart? Have you or someone you know's name written down in history? Yes. Given people like Ginny were accepted because of what he saw in her. Yet, what about the other students that he hasn't seen? There are plenty other students at Hogwarts. It was again, like I keep saying, by chance Slughorn or whomever[!] happens to be there. Why not give the chance to others? Jealousy is involved yes. But this jealousy in my opinion is provoked and initiated by someone you wouldn't expect. A TEACHER. Just because someone isn't in the Club, might he/she not think...am I not good enough? Are they worth more than me just because they have this???

[omgsirius.livejournal.com]

The Slug Club is most certainly an unneeded nuisance. The club does not band students together based on their skills, interests, etc., but instead brings the rich and well-connected together for the advancement of the teacher. It leaves out other talented students simply because they or their parents are not well-known. Most of the time, the students involved in the Slug Club don't even realize they are being taken advantage of. The Slug Club does nothing more than help to divide the shool based on social standing.

Sara/Gryffindor

[butterbuns.livejournal.com]

Clubs like that don't always divide people. They take people who normally wouldn't give each other a chance, and force them to interact, even just a slight amount. No, they don't often realize that they're being used, but if being in a club like that can help them in the slightest, one would think some of them wouldn't care. Besides, it's not like they're being 'used' for heinous reasons, Slughorn just wants to feel good about himself by knowing famous people. Happens to all of us.

Saskia ♥ Slytherin

[sandygurl-31.livejournal.com]

Well, I think The slug club is unfair. That those "special" students get treatment that the other "Normal" students dont get is unfair. Just Because you have a Rich Aunt or a Famous Cousin, or you happen to be good at something, that doesnt mean they should get special treatment. Yes the ones that are good at doing things, Like hermione, it is great that they are so good and should be commended. The other students who dont have the opportunity to be in the slug club view the club as something bad, it makes them feel inferior and makes then somewhat resent the people who are accepted spreading Amnosity, and that is always something we can do with out.
Sandy/Hufflepuff

[alonelymiracle.livejournal.com]

But if those students that excel are picked out, and the others are left, won't it make the left-over students want to try harder to get in? Then they will be exerting all they've got into trying to impress Slughorn. It's kind of like the National Honor Society; they pick you to be in it due to good grades, behaviour, etc. Is that not basically what Slughorn is doing? Kids here strive to make National Honor Society, so it's only natural kids in the wizarding world might strive to get into the Slug Club. It's the same concept.

[kauricat.livejournal.com]

I think the Slug Club, while possessing a rather unfortunate name, is a worthy addition to Hogwarts.

If I thought that membership was restricted solely to purebloods, or solely to those who have important family members, I might feel differently, but the fact is that Professor Slughorn does not exclude muggleborns or those who haven't any famous or influential relations. I feel that having an eye- or ear-catching relative is but one of the criteria that Slughorn looks at when pondering whom to invite into the club, and it's not an unreasonable consideration.

This club serves as a possible melting-pot for talented students who might not otherwise have a chance to interact with one another. A student from Slytherin House and a student from Gryffindor House might not normally choose to get to know one another due to traditional rivalries and House peer pressure, but the Slug Club provides an opportunity for those two students to meet and learn more about each other in a socially acceptable environment. A pure-blood and a muggleborn who find themselves interacting within the Slug Clug might discover that they have a lot in common by participating in this club. Traditional prejudices might thereby be eroded by the familiarity that the club can provide. Any club that brings down prejudicial walls or positively alters perceptions of different community groups is a fine addition to Hogwarts.

Kauri~Ravenclaw

Against.

[limeyo.livejournal.com]

One of the central themes -- if we can use the sorting hat's songs as evidence -- is the idea of 'banding together' and ignoring the classes people are put into through birth or otherwise. The Slug Club only serves to isolate certain individuals who show great 'potential'; this 'potential' judged by only one man, someone who proved throughout Half-Blood Prince that he is truly keeping his best interests in mind. Furthermore, Slughorn uses his Slug Club as a network of powerful people; a group that *he* can benefit from in the future. He is not assembling the brightest and best students for the betterment of society; he is doing so to strengthen his own position in society.

Also, Ginny was only invited to the first meeting because Slughorn saw her when he was moving through the train. Had she not have demonstrated her skill at an opportune time, she would not have been in the club at all, leading one to believe that Slughorn is clearly not interested in taking the time to research *all* students in order to see who is truly worthy of an invitation.

We have come to see throughout the books that sometimes the most 'pathetic' people, those that aren't in the Slug Club, have a great deal of 'potential'. Neville and Luna, for instance, were apart of the rescue mission at the Ministry. Why shouldn't they have the opportunity to access the resources Slughorn is offering? They certainly showed potential.

Lime, Gryffindor

Re: Against.

[cantatrix05.livejournal.com]

Also, Ginny was only invited to the first meeting because Slughorn saw her when he was moving through the train. Had she not have demonstrated her skill at an opportune time, she would not have been in the club at all,

You don't know that. I mean good heavens, the man hasn't even arrived at Hogwarts yet. How could he have interviewed all the students? Ginny is a very clever girl. If Slughorn hadn't seen her then, he surely would have heard or seen something else interesting that she did. And do you think that *all* the professors research *all* the students when looking for someone to fill a particular slot. I suspect, like most of us, they choose the ones with the needed talent with whom they are familiar.

[butterbuns.livejournal.com]

The Slug Club is a worthy addition, and any club like that would be at any school. It brings people together, people who may not have even looked at one another before getting stuck in a room together. Things like the party are a way to socialize with people outside your comfor zone, which everyone needs once in a while. If you only hang around the people you always hang around with, you won't get exposed to different viewpoints, and that sometimes leads to an especially closed mind. It can cause some division, yes, but many things in Hogwarts do that, including the students themselves. The Slytherins, for example, tend to be prideful, and unfriendly to people in the other houses. This sort of club can show them that they're not 'better' than everyone.

Saskia ♥ Slytherin

[musicaltwin07.livejournal.com]

good point. However, too much confidence can cause someone to be egotistical. They will think wow, Slughorn picked me for his Slug Club, I must be amazing! Some of them let it go to their heads. That's not good for a school which should be encouraging unity! People might start to count and then if one house has more people in the Slug Club than another house they'll rub it in. They'll start to think they're a better, smarter, more skilled house. That's horrible, especially when it might not be true! Like others have said, people were picked just because they had famous relatives. See this club doesn't even have good requirements. Just because you know someone famous or skilled doesn't mean you, yourself will be famous/skilled.

♥ Melissa*Hufflepuff

[memyselfandi87.livejournal.com]

The Slug Club is an unneeded nuisance in Hogwarts. It is simply favoritism on Professor Slughorn's part. He is isolating people simply because they're related to someone great, or simply because they did some feat. The other students at Hogwarts obviously do not like the favoritism. Professor Slughorn should not show his favoritism in that way.

[butterbuns.livejournal.com]

There are very few teachers that don't show favortisim. Of course, most of them don't do it that obviously, but they do it. Just because Slughorn brings together people who excel in different areas doesn't make the club a bad idea. It almost shows that you do get rewarded in life, something that is sometimes hard to see. He may be isolating people, but that's not always a bad thing. It's not like people weren't feeling isolated, or angry that they weren't as good as others before the Slug Club came to be. They already knew that some people were better at say, Potions, than others, or knew famous people. Just because the club makes that more obvious, isn't that big a deal.

Saskia ♥ Slytherin

[ohelectricshock.livejournal.com]

The Slug Club is just another obstacle isoloating students from one another. Slughorn is trying to seek out fame and connections through students, and when the students are at such an impressionable age, what kind of morals is he teaching those students? To leech onto other people's talents and only befriend people who sho promising futures or are directly related to those who are famous?

Honestly, that is no way to treat students, or any human for that matter.

[mme-antoinette.livejournal.com]

...what kind of morals is he teaching those students? To leech onto other people's talents and only befriend people who sho promising futures or are directly related to those who are famous?

What's wrong with making the most of what you've got? Why are family connections bad? In my own life, my family is not wealthy, but because my parents grew up in town and run a business here, everybody knows them. They aren't popular, rich, or remotely social. But they have connections. All kinds of connections... do we need new carpet? There's an old friend who can get us a deal. Do we need concert tickets? A-ha, a family friend who happens to be wealthy pulls some strings for us. Do you need a job? I'll get you one-- I'm personally responsible for getting many people I know jobs, either at my parent's business, the company I work for, or at the company where my significant other works. It's all about connections. I use examples from my own humble life to illustrate that people using their family connections to get ahead in life is extremely common and often benign. The Slug Club functions as a networking club in this way and gives students a glimpse into how the world works. It's actually a very useful skill to learn. And Slughorn sets a positive example by not using these connections to evil or immoral ends. (He is very careful NOT to align himself with Voldemort or any Death Eaters.)

As a result of Slughorn's club, he and his ex-members now have useful social connections in all sorts of different spheres. That's why admittance to the club is edited to include the most promising students. It benefits everyone in the club if membership is edited to include only the most prominent wizards of the future. In addition, the club teaches students how to make the most of their talents and connections to acheive positive results.

~~Mme. Antoinette, Ravenclaw~~

[bottledfizzyh2o.livejournal.com]

I believe the Slug Club is just an unneeded nuisance because rather than giving students confidence within themselves through education and social interaction such as the DA has done for students like Neville, the Slug Club favors students based on things outside of themselves, such as famous relatives, which puts them at an unfair advantage that leads to other students feeling a decline in self esteem because they don't understand why they haven't been chosen to participate in what appears to be such a wonderfully beneficial club. An example of this is how Ron questions why he was never invited to one of Slughorn's parties while Harry and Hermione both were. The only real person benefiting from this club is not a student but Slughorn who is given an audience to show off for.

Melissa, Gryffindor

[cantatrix05.livejournal.com]

An example of this is how Ron questions why he was never invited to one of Slughorn's parties while Harry and Hermione both were.

I feel sorry for Ron but he's hardly the bright light that Harry and Hermione are. Not everything in life is designed to lift one's personal self-esteem. And I wonder if he isn't mostly upset about Ginny being invited- and more than a little jealous. Her invitation means that the club isn't just about 'who you know', it's 'what you show' and Ron doesn't show that well. Besides, he doesn't seem to think it's elitist for him to play Quidditch and the rest of the students to watch.

cantatrix05/slytherin