Tri-Wizard Tournament Challenge IV
Aug. 8th, 2005 01:16 pm![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
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hogwartsishomeThere have been many instances in Muggle history where the intervention of wizards could have prevented countless accounts of bloodshed. For example, look at the time periods of the Crusades (Europe), The Terror (France), and the Holocaust (Germany).
Why didn't/don't wizards intervene, and is this way of doing things moral, or should it be changed? Look at both sides-- for and against intervention-- and then pick one stance and explain why you chose that side.
Use examples from both Muggle & Wizard history to support your thesis. Essays without proper or strong support will not win this challenge.
Comment here with your essay; all entries are due by Thursday at noon. Good luck!!
Questions Post
Bunny // Gryffindor // Mod
Why didn't/don't wizards intervene, and is this way of doing things moral, or should it be changed? Look at both sides-- for and against intervention-- and then pick one stance and explain why you chose that side.
Use examples from both Muggle & Wizard history to support your thesis. Essays without proper or strong support will not win this challenge.
Comment here with your essay; all entries are due by Thursday at noon. Good luck!!
Questions Post
Bunny // Gryffindor // Mod
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2005-08-08 08:01 pm (UTC)If wizards indeed have all this power and the abilities that are suggested then why have they not interfered in such events? It probably has to do with a lot of factors. For instance, the wizarding world and the muggle world are two totally different realms of reality while still being interconnected.
To be frank, and soundly blunt, many of the events that are significant to the muggle world have no real affect on the wizarding world. Let's be honest. The Crusades were a religious war, where the winners managed to turn 1/3 of the world to their side. Yay, they win, and the majority of the world now celebrates Christmas.
However, to the wizarding world, this is probably nothing to get worked up about. Take for example, a very poor third world country. The majority of the world's richest nations KNOW what's going on. People are starving, children are dying, there is a civil war going on everyday, and millions of people are dying through mass genocide. However, it doesn't affect us directly and while we want to care, we sort of don't.
Same thing applies to the wizarding world. They would like to care about the goings on in the muggle world, but they have their own problems to worry about. I'm certain that in the wizarding world, they would be concerned about the oppression of women in Afghanistan, the starving kids in Ethiopia, and even how Lance is doing with his chemo (which I totally would've used magic cause GO LANCE!) but they're more concerned with what's going on in their own world.
Let's be honest here. Are you more concerned about the starving babies in China or about getting your paper done by Monday?
no subject
Date: 2005-08-09 06:05 pm (UTC)But, just think, if they had helped us, stopped this horrible tragedy from occurring, wouldn’t we have gone running to them each time something horrible happened? If we kept asking them for help, pretty soon they would get sick of helping us, and the one time we really needed help, they wouldn’t be there to help us. Then what would we do? With no knowledge of how to solve the problem, no way of knowing how to fight it, anyone could take over the world and quite possibly destroy humanity as we know it.
Think, if the wizarding world helped us with our tragedies, then 9/11, for example, would have never happened. They could’ve used a Time Turner, Apparated on the planes, used a Memory Charm on the terrorists, and voila, no more problems with that. But, because they erased it from history, (which would’ve been a dangerous and messy process) now no one is on their guard for terrorists. Because the wizarding world helped us, how are we going to know how to help ourselves in the future if it happens again and the wizarding world isn’t there to help us? How are we going to know how to be on guard against terrorist attacks?
Not too mention that the wizarding world has enough problems of its own to take care of. If we bombard them with our problems, all the while they have to keep peace and order in their world, wouldn’t that be just a bit unfair to them? We can’t possibly ask them to always help us. Because things like the Holocaust happened, we learned to never let it happen again. We learned from those mistakes; we were put on our guard and we learned to never let them happen again. Isn’t it better to learn how to learn to solve your mistakes yourself than to have someone else solve them for you?
Because we solved them ourselves and got through the problem, we know how to do it again, and in the future we could probably even prevent it. In the end, I think it’s better the worlds stay separated, that way no one world will become too dependent on the other.
Courtney // Ravenclaw
no subject
Date: 2005-08-09 08:30 pm (UTC)If they knew the full extent of the wizarding world, most Muggles would probably ask why wizards did nothing to stop the twentieth centuries greatest tragedies, including the Holocaust. Could the wizards have helped? Maybe. Most people did not realize the full extent of Hitler’s plans for the “undesirables” until it was too late. The extermination phase of the Holocaust did not begin until 1942, just as the United States (Muggle and magical) entered the war. Some wizards probably decided to flee Nazi-occupied countries and perhaps helped their Muggle friends and neighbors to do likewise. Unfortunately, it is equally likely that some wizards agreed with or even aided the Nazis. Even today, we see intense prejudice towards Muggles and “mudbloods” in the magical community. This hatred has existed for centuries, and I find it likely that some unscrupulous wizards might have seen fit to aid in the destruction of as many Muggles as possible. Perhaps they even turned some of their magical enemies over to the Nazis, claiming they were “undesirables.” However, it is also possible and even likely that a few wizards are on the list of people who aided the Jews during the Holocaust.
We must also note that the wizarding community had its own problems during the Second World War. Albus Dumbledore defeated the Dark Wizard Grindewald in 1945, and victory in the Muggle war came in August of that year. Each society should naturally tend to its own concerns, and judging by the devastation caused by You-Know-Who, the years of World War II would have been a very dark time for wizards as well. It seems only logical that England’s Ministry of Magic would focus its main attentions on defeating Grindewald rather than helping the Muggles fight their war.
Witches and wizards, I believe, have done more than most Muggles know to help solve the problems of the Muggle world. Unfortunately, most of the problems could not be solved with anything less than a full revelation of the magical world and the power held by most adult wizards. Full intervention by wizards might lead to Muggles relying too much on magic to solve their problems, which is impractical and unfair to wizards. I believe that it is best for both the magical and Muggle communities that they remain separate, at least until tolerance and acceptance can take a greater hold in both.
no subject
Date: 2005-08-10 02:58 am (UTC)Should this not be the case, how should the wizarding society act? I feel the answer should be an unequivocal and resounding “yes!” The aforementioned instances of mass human slaughter were not affecting some far-away country, it had direct and substantial affects on these wizards. Furthermore, the instances of wizards and/or their families who live amongst the wizards is likely to outweigh those who live strictly in the wizarding world. Muggleborns and Half-bloods comprise a great number of the witches and wizards. I believe that their families have the right to seek and receive wizarding help. However, it should not end with just those directly associated with the magic world, but to the society as a whole. It is undeniable that wizards are not exclusively of the magical world, but often need and use the world of the Muggles. Is it not their duty to help protect these individuals and the places in which they too must live?
Anna M//Ravenclaw
Cordi, Ravenclaw
Date: 2005-08-10 06:48 pm (UTC)Without taking this into consideration, it is impossible to determine whether or not this primary objective of secrecy is moral or immoral. Morality, according to George Lakoff’s Moral Politics, is based on a system where the values more important to a particular section of society are deemed more moral than values that society deems detrimental. In the wizarding world, secrecy from the Muggle world is of greater importance, and thus of more moral value, than interfering with the affairs of nonwizards, though the latter may appear to be the more kindhearted course of action.
The idea is that it is more beneficial, and thus of more moral value, to wizards to stay hidden: becoming involved in Muggle affairs would make the wizarding world target of not only those they were protecting the Muggles against, but possibly of the Muggle world as a whole. Were the wizarding world to interfere, how would nonwizards react? Would they become dependant on wizards for a ‘quick fix’ in times of need? Would they react with hostility to those more naturally gifted and better able to protect themselves?
Historically, Muggles have been overtly hostile to those whose appearance or beliefs differ from theirs. Though there have been great strides in terms of civil rights and women’s rights, the racial profiling following the 2001 terrorist attacks and the persecution of gays that persist to this day are evidence that this tendancy remains.
It is one thing when your enemies are religious zealots (I am speaking here of fundamentalists or extremists of any stripe) who may, at some point, be able to use a weapon against you, but what happens when you’re faced with a population of individuals who could harm you without having to utter a word (evidenced by the wandless magic finally introduced in Half-Blood Prince)?
Though interference from the wizarding world could no doubt have saved hundreds of thousands of lives over the course of history, it is not wrong or immoral of the wizarding world to wish to keep secret, as an integration of the two worlds would undoubtedly cause chaos that neither society is equipped to handle, particularly not in conjunction with the events the wizards would no doubt be revealing themselves to assist with.
The three examples given by the essay prompt, along with many other major tragedies of history, were prompted in large part by ideas of religious, philosophical, or racial superiority. It would be dangerous for a wizard to reveal himself in these times, when magic is considered by so many to be ‘of the devil’? Though it may seem harsh, the wizarding policy of separation allows them the safety to protect in less overt ways as they see fit, and thus it is, in light of their beliefs, a moral decision that they would likely be wise to keep with.
-- Cordi, Ravenclaw, et cetera and whatnot --
no subject
Date: 2005-08-10 10:06 pm (UTC)One of the things that make us special is our free will. Animals cannot choose what to eat, wear, how to interact with people, and most cannot choose a mate. If wizards got involved, for our own good, that would be taking away our free will. We would no longer learn from our mistakes, such as how American slavery and the civil war taught us the value of human life and that just because someone looks different does not mean that they are less valuable. We would not have had that mistake to learn from because wizards would have intervened to save lives. Unfortunately, sometimes lives must be lost in order for people to learn and understand.
Wizards have been known to cause catastrophes as well. Peter Pettigrew blew up a street, killing muggles, and the news reported it as a pipe explosion. The same thing happened with the hurricane in southern England. How can we be sure that our history books are accurate and occasions such as the challenger explosion or the attacks on 9/11 were not the product of wizards fighting and covering up to hide their identity?
If wizards took this step, there is always the possibility that they could end up being worshipped as gods or superheroes. That instead of enjoying their lives, they become the world police and saviors. Then, there is always the possibility for people to take advantage of this by accusing them of damages that were caused by taking preventative measures to save their lives. For example, if a wizard is only able to save one family member from a burning house, that person could blame the wizard for not saving the child, or they could have severe burns that would cause them pain for the rest of their life, something the wizard caused by not just leaving them alone to live out their destiny.
Wizards taking a stance to help correct the flaws of society is a bad idea. Not only is it detrimental to their lifestyle, but it removes muggle free will and the opportunity to learn great lessons about the value of each other and human life in general. It is not fair to place the burden of being the salvation of the world on anyone else, and we should not.
Elizabeth~Hufflepuff
no subject
Date: 2005-08-11 12:53 am (UTC)Muggles aren't the only ones with wars. Wizards have had their fair share too. Grindelwald was a master of terror and reigned until Albus Dumbledore defeated the dark wizard in 1945. They have concealed their world and their wars as best they can from the Muggles for their own safety.
If the Wizards helped the Muggles fight their battles, their world would be discovered. Wizarding secrecy is a necessary trouble and lending a helping hand just isn't possible.
-Morgan//Hufflepuff
((sorry, had to resend it because I messed up the first time. x.x))
no subject
Date: 2005-08-11 02:24 am (UTC)Who can forget the countless battles, innumerable deaths, the unspeakable horrors of slavery, centuries of poverty, starvation, cruelty, and bloodshed? Everything from the death of Caesar to the latest tragedies in London evokes a powerful emotion of pain and suffering. Wouldn't it be good if it all went away; if it turned out that we had fellow men among us who could take away the suffering? Miraculous as that sounds, it would not save humanity, nor would it ease our pain.
Wizard intervention would only create more problems. Throughout Muggle history there have been mentions of witches and wizards, and their persecutions. In most cases they could not recognize the real witch or wizard, but instead ended up burning their fellow townspeople. This created even more suffering, distrust, and deaths. Wizards have long since learned to hide from the rest of the humanity and the reasons for their doing so have stayed the same through the centuries and to this day. Knowing that wizards and magic existed would get a similar reaction as to aliens suddenly deciding to visit us from space. The outcome would be disastrous for both the wizarding and Muggle world.
What we need wizards cannot give us: unity, trust, friendship and peace. Their own world is at war, divided and fighting; family against family, friends against friends, students against teachers. We do not need enchanted broomsticks, Floo powder or wands. We have technology: microwaves that get our meals ready in 90 seconds, cars that can go as fast as a Firebolt, and Internet that can tell us anything we want to know. Muggles have found ways to survive without magic, and magic would not save the world now, nor would it be any use in stopping violence and wars.
Wizards interfering to save lives would have been a noble thing to do, but not the right thing. We need to learn to unite on our own, to trust each other and be loyal, and make this world a better place. We have struggled to overcome issues of slavery, poverty, corruption, injustice, and discrimination for centuries, and we still have far to go. But one day, perhaps, when we are at peace with ourselves and our fellow man, we will be ready to accept everyone, and embrace the whole world in all its glory.
Andrea, Ravenclaw
no subject
Date: 2005-08-11 04:32 am (UTC)The Israeli army launched a preemptive war against Egypt, Jordan, and Syria in June 1967, invading the Sinai Peninsula in Egypt, the Golan Heights in Syria, the West Bank of the Jordan River, and the Gaza Strip. While the Six Day War was condemned by the United Nations who demanded the territory be returned, Israel planned to keep it – but when Egypt recognized Israel as a state, they returned the Sinai Peninsula. Israel has yet to completely return any other forcibly taken territory.
So, while the Arab world so vilified Israel, why did Egypt, a leader, recognize its greatest enemy? The Sinai Peninsula contains a vital shipping lane, and recognition restored its rightful owner. Egypt, air force destroyed, could not fight back, but Saudi Arabia offered their support. President Nasser was assassinated because of his recognition of the State. Israel had the potential to subjugate the Arab populations in the regions, as it still separates families with two chain link fences in the Golan Heights today. The Golan Heights were not returned. The Wizarding World returned the Sinai Peninsula to Egypt. Why?
They were protecting the interests of Gringotts Bank.
The Suez Canal was a slim barrier between the formidable Israeli army and the many tombs yet undiscovered which fed the coffers of Gringotts bank. With Sinai as a launching pad, it was entirely possible for the army of Israel to seize control of Egypt, restrict the freedom of movement, not allow excavation of archeological sites, thus stopping Gringotts operations and causing havoc: there would be no revaluing of money, and thus no stable economy. It was in the best interest of the Wizards, particularly the British Ministry of Magic (using the United Kingdom’s influence) to solve the Israeli occupation quickly and with the minimum of damage to any potential treasure troves.
Like most governments in the world, Ministries of Magic the world over look out for their own and their peoples’ best interests. It was in the interest of the Wizarding communities in the Third Reich to play along with Hitler, in order to preserve a small bit of freedom and a grant of protection for its own people. It was in the interest of the British Wizards to keep the Indian population and thus the Indian Wizards colonized as long as possible – India’s resources proved important for Empire, and a powerful England was good for the British Wizarding Community.
Wizards have the power to change the Muggle world: Obliviate spies who learn too much, use an Imperious Curse to create literal puppet regimes. But a government must taking care of its own people, leaving no time for such hands on control in other countries -- the reason empires fall. This is the reason that the Six Day War was not prevented, but status quo quickly restored. The Wizarding World will not interfere in Muggle affairs unless their own agendas are threatened. Wizards play their own games, sometimes using Muggles as pawns, and sometimes being used themselves, an international relations game where both sides understand the rules and stakes.
Referenced:
Six Day War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_day_war)
Kate//Ravenclaw
no subject
Date: 2005-08-11 11:53 am (UTC)Wizarding societies worldwide have been isolated from the rest of humanity for centuries. However, even with the most stringent of borders between magical and non-magical societies there are points at which these lines blur. It is therefore a question as to whether the Wizarding World should intervene in some of the more dire examples of non-magcal existence; those where the human tragedy is real and on a dramatic scale. There may be a hefty price to pay for magical intervention on such a level though; jeopardising centuries of magical secrecy, and thus endangering witches and wizards across the globe. Like the muggle communities involved in the situation, there would also be major economic and political costs associated with intervention. It becomes a matter of weighing the needs of the wizarding community against those of humanity as a whole.
The term ‘the Wizarding World’ has developed a literal ring of truth to it – wizarding society has become its own world, far removed from the eyes and technology of the muggle community. The split between magical and non-magical society can probably be best attributed to a period centuries ago where animosity between the populations was at an all time high. ‘Witches’ were being burned at the stake, and there was a general fear in muggle society about what magic may be brewing against them. Unfortunate as it may seem, such fear of difference has proved largely ingrained in human nature, leading to the persecution of different communities time and time again. Wars, genocide and terrorism have all evolved from such beginnings, and while it may be fair to say that this is exactly why the Wizarding World should be involved, it is also fair to assume that the Holocost could just as easily have featured wizard-kind in place of the Jews. Given the momentous advances in the way muggles kill each other, they could now pose a significant risk. In light of the fact that human nature will not go changing in the near future, it would be in the best interest of wizarding society to stay hidden, and therefore remain far removed from events which risk exposure.
War is not cheap and often not popular, and while it may be waged in order to prevent atrocities, there will always be casualties. A good example of the cost of war can be seen in the decades following WWI. Many countries had come to rely on the US to aid in their war effort, making the US the economic power. Thus, the collapse of Wall Street plunged an already strained world economy into a crippling situation. Costs to the Wizarding World would be incurred to recruit, train, deploy and compensate individuals, as well as provide them with stealth equipment, medical supplies and the like. It is well known that Goblins like their gold, and there may well be an extra price to pay. It may not be the best political stance either – there are a number of individuals in wizarding society who harbour their own animosity towards muggles, and certainly would not support their aid. There is also a casualty risk; no one wants to see family fall, especially fighting something that they may not view as their problem. This isn’t such a strange notion – the US didn’t involve themselves in WW2 until they became a target. (I’m going to be lynched for that! XD) As a result, economic, political and personal costs may also suggest that it is best to keep out of muggle affairs, regardless of the morality of the issue.
To conclude, the risk of exposing the Wizarding World, and thus uprooting past persecution, in giving aid to large scale muggle atrocities is just too high. This coupled with the potential economic and political effects suggests that in the interests of wizarding society it is probably best to keep out of muggle affairs, no matter what the morality of the issue prescribes.
Sara//Ravenclaw
no subject
Date: 2005-08-11 02:15 pm (UTC)It has been proposed that wizards could and should have intervened in Muggle events to save lives. My review of Wizarding and Muggle history makes me believe that such intervention was never likely to occur and could, in fact, be detrimental to both sides.
Wizarding society has operated in a strict isolationist mode for all of its known history. This is logical for a minority community whose presence, when revealed, tends to evoke fear and hatred in Muggles. Because of this isolation, most wizards have no contact with Muggles or knowledge of their history. Those who have some interest either consider Muggles interesting curiosities (i.e. Arthur Weasley) or an inferior species to be avoided or eliminated (i.e. Death Eaters). None of these attitudes are compatible with a ‘pro-intervention’ sentiment.
Wizards have also spent much of their history fighting their own battles. The Goblin Wars, conflicts with giants and the battles against Grindewald and Voldemort would have given the average witch or wizard more than enough conflict and death without resorting to interfering in the affairs of others.
If, for some reason, such an intervention was to be considered several problems would arise. Given wizards’ lack of familiarity with Muggle history and politics, how would they decide which side to champion? The choice is easy when considering the Nazis but becomes murkier in, say, the American Civil War or the French or American Revolutions. Should you choose the legitimate authority, the underdog, the side with the most casualties, the side with inferior weapons? Lack of familiarity with Muggle technology could lead to a serious error in judging this last category since some weapons (i.e. nuclear weapons) could be easily overlooked or misjudged.
Aside from difficulty in decision making, intervention has the potentially negative consequences for both sides. The sudden appearance of wizards wielding unknown powers is likely to generate fear, even in the Muggles being protected. Those suspected of collaborating with this ‘power grab’ (likely Squibs or more tolerant Muggles) would be persecuted, leading to unintended deaths. For Wizarding society, once it becomes known to Muggles in general there will be no closing the door. They will be despised by some but a more subtle threat is that of infiltration. If Muggle fashions and technology become attractive to wizards much of their distinct culture is doomed.
From a Muggle perspective, intervention by a wizarding force may be welcomed in some cases. Human history, however, is filled with examples of liberators who stayed around to become conquerors. Fear of being over-run would lead to pockets of resistance and persecution of perceived collaborators. Politically inclined Muggles would try to garner Wizarding support for their own types of ‘interventions’. The governmental disarray would be enormous forcing the wizards to either attempt total retreat or accept complete control of the Muggle world.
Most wizards wish Muggles no harm but I believe I have shown that, as a society, non-intervention is the only sustainable position for the Wizarding world.
no subject
Date: 2005-08-11 03:48 pm (UTC)The Magical Nation is one that chooses neutrality, as evidenced by the numerous safeguards within their governments to prevent interaction with Muggles. They choose not to interfere in the issues of other nations and states. To do so would be to give up their secrets. Rebeus Hagrid succinctly gives us the reason why this is undesirable: Muggles would want wizards to fix everything**. As a small minority, the wizards could easily find themselves in a situation where visibility could mean having to fight to protect themselves. A war would not be good for either the Muggles or wizards, under any circumstances. Given the Muggle tendency to oppress or exterminate minorities, visible throughout all history, one could not easily claim that it would not happen with magical people. To remain neutral and uninvolved is the most effective way for wizards to protect themselves from being trampled upon by Muggles.
Is the stance of protecting oneself immoral? Certainly not. Successful arguments can be made that it is not ideal for everyone. However, the simple fact is that people must take care of themselves, or else they cannot take care of anyone. It is also human nature not to involve oneself in strife unless it can be avoided. Muggle wars operate on the same principles. Countries did not become involved in the World Wars until they were effected (United States of America), or until countries they cared about were effected (English-speaking Canada). It is also important to note that as the Magical Nation spans all countries, the nation itself would have been divided in loyalties during wars, such as the Second World War when the Holocaust was taking place. A wizarding civil war would help no one, and quite possibly hinder efforts of Muggles.
Protecting oneself is not immoral, nor is it ideal. But we can condemn no one for choosing the path that is not ideal in order to survive.
---
*Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince
** Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone
- Becker, Slytherin.
no subject
Date: 2005-08-11 04:16 pm (UTC)